120 — Marie-Elizabeth Mali-Taking Your Relationships to the Next Level with The Relationship Alchemist.mp3 - powered by Happy Scribe

Ruthless Compassion is a podcast about how you can turn your emotional shit into fertilizer for success and see your darkest moments as opportunities to transform into a powerful kindness warrior. If you enjoy this podcast, please leave a review wherever you listen. Welcome, Marie-Elizabeth Molly to the Ruthless Compassion podcast.

Thank you, Marcia. I am excited to be here.

I'm excited to have you because we haven't talked about relationships in a really long time on the podcast, and I think we're overdue.

Oh, good. I'm so glad because I've been reflecting on how much I love your title Ruthless Compassion because that aligns so much with how I approach relationship and what I believe is possible in relationship. So I'm super excited to talk to you for that reason.

Well, that's wonderful. So before we get going, why don't you first introduce yourself officially and tell the listeners who you are, what you do, and how you came to do it.

All right, well, I am a relationship transformation expert. My business is called Relationship Alchemy, and I've been in business with this business for seven years. And I've also done a couple of TEDx Talks, and I've been speaking on the topic of relationship for several years now. And I really came to working in this way. I've worked with clients for over 20 years in one healing fashion or another. I started as a massage therapist, then I became a Chinese medicine practitioner. I have a Masters in Traditional Chinese medicine, and so I practiced that for a while. And then eventually I grew into working as a coach and eventually, eventually grew into specifically working around relationships because that was the area I most had to do my own work in. And after my divorce in 2012, I did a really deep dive for several years into the study and practice of relationships, sexuality, coaching around those things, understanding what makes us tick, how to do it better so that we have more love and joy and it's less hard and painful. And so through doing all that work, I really rediscovered how much I loved coaching, specifically because I had been taking a break from coaching and decided to re-enter the coaching space niche around relationships because it's something that we just so need and it's something that is hard won.

The knowledge I have and the skills that I have, I really had to learn. So I feel very capable at meeting people where they're at and understanding where they're at, because I've probably made every mistake in the book and have developed now a relationship over the past seven years with my partner. We just got engaged last week.

Congratulations.

Yes, it's exciting. And we really approach our relationship as a practice and as a specific container for each of us to become more fully expressed as ourselves. And so that's really the lens through which I approach relationship coaching and relationship work, is that it's an alchemical process that reveals the gold of who you truly are. If you approach it that way, that's really fascinating.

So many questions come to mind. But I guess what I'd like to ask you about, because I've done psychotherapy for so many years, and I've had a lot of patients come in and talk to me about their own relationship struggles. And I guess one of the things that always strikes me is how much our past informs our relationship choices. How do you deal with the kind of baggage that people bring to romantic relationships?

It truly is so core to our choices, to what our preferences are, to what we tend to avoid. And so as a coach, I'm not delving as much into unpacking the past as a therapist would. But I do look at what the patterns are, and based on the patterns, help the person decide. Is this pattern still serving me? Is there something I want to shift here? Is there a skill I could learn and practice in an Iterative and research? We're a big fan of kind of approaching relationships as a form of research into self knowledge. And can I draw on the past, understand, okay, this is how things came to be in the present. Can I love and accept the places in myself that maybe I've rejected in the past, or that have not felt effective or skillful, or where I maybe even feel broken? Can I forgive the hurt that has been done by me and to me in order to move forward with more room to try new things? Just because the past has determined our choices until this moment doesn't mean that it still has to. And so I like to understand where people are coming from.

And I love people who come to me. Most of my clients have been in therapy for ten years or more. I tend to attract a sophisticated crowd because my work is more advanced and deep. I don't tend to work with beginners who have never done any kind of self-inquiry. And so I love it when someone is self aware. They understand their patterns, they see how they got here. And we can love and accept that diligently with practice and find a new way forward that can be more effective and actually yield more joy and more love and more depth and more fulfillment.

That sounds great. So what have you found are some common issues that prevent people from fully embracing intimacy?

I would say the most common is a sense of unworthiness to be who you are, just as you are. I feel like most of us who are attracted to do self-work feel like we're flawed, like something's wrong with us that we need to fix. And so when we're entering relationships with this sense of not being able to be all of ourselves, like, oh, I can present this person, and they'll love me, but if they see this, right or oh, God forbid, I act like that. If that stuff is operating, we'll tend to create relationships that kind of skate on the surface and never quite get to the depth that can truly heal those spots.

Yeah. And when people are in relationships, one of the things I've also seen a lot is how communication breaks down, because I have observed that a lot of times when people are having an argument, they're not actually arguing about the thing that's really bothering them. They're arguing about some other thing. Right. Something deeper. How do you deal with people in terms of getting them to communicate effectively about the real stuff?

This is such a great question because this is one of my favorite topics. My partner and I actually just did a live broadcast last week about how to navigate conflict more effectively. And the first thing I have people do is recognize that when they're getting into a conflict, just like you said, it's likely not about the thing, like you blow up over the drop sock that's on the floor, but it's almost never about the drop sock on the floor. Right. So the first thing is to recognize exactly what you said. The second is to recognize that your nervous system in that current moment that you're having the conflict, is probably not in a state that can be receptive to working things out. In other words, one or both people have gotten activated. And when I say activated, I mean like, heart is racing, or you're sweating, or your palms are sweaty, or you feel heightened, or you feel angry or scared. You know, there's some physical reaction that's going on. And depending on the level of trauma in the system and how much of that has been worked through, that may hijack a person's capacity to stay present in the conversation.

So my recommendation when there's a conflict is for one or both people when they recognize that their system is starting to get flooded in that way, or they're starting to get activated past the point at which they can stay conscious in the conversation, which means they're going to start yelling or they're going to start name calling, or they're going to start doing or saying something that creates wreckage. I highly recommend taking a time out. And this is not done by storming out of the room. This is done by self responsibly saying, hey, I'm about to say or do something that I'm going to regret. I need to time out. Or oh, my nervous system is super activated. I can't stay present here. I need a timeout. I'll be back. That's the other key part of taking the time out, is letting a person, your partner in this conflict, know that you're going to come back. Because if they have any kind of abandonment wound and you just leave, that's going to trigger their abandonment wound, and it's going to make the whole thing worse.

Those three words all be back are super important because I think people can say, yeah, I need a time out, but to say, I'll be back, so reassuring.

Yes, yes. Like, just because you're in a conflict with each other doesn't mean you don't tend to each other. It doesn't mean you don't tend to yourself. So I see the taking of the time out as attending to yourself, and I see letting them know you'll be back as attending to the other. Right. And in this way, everybody gets tended to. During the time out, your only job is to settle your system. It's not a time to rehash the argument. It's not a time to form an ironclad defense. It's not a time to fortify and justify your position. It's purely for you to settle your system down so that you can return to the conversation from a more centered place. And what that looks like, it's different for different people. Somebody might need to dance it out or take a walk or take a bath or take a nap or eat something like, whatever, listen to loud music, whatever. Journal, exactly. Exercise like masturbate. I mean, just whatever settles your system and brings you back to center. And then when both people are ready to come back to the conversation, at that point, the next thing I suggest is to really make sure it's a good time.

So it's like, okay, I want to continue this conversation. Is now a good time? Because you want to make sure the other person's ready to continue. And so when you have agreement from both people that it's a good time, at that point, you start back into the conversation. And the best way to start back in is with some kind of vulnerable admission of something you noticed about yourself, like, oh, I noticed that when you said such and such, I had a really strong reaction to that. Or I noticed when you said such and such, I got super scared, and that made me reacted like some kind of acknowledgement or admission of what happened for you emotionally is often a good doorway back in. Would you say that too?

Well, I'm chuckling here on my end because I did group therapy for many years, and we had rules about how people were going to communicate in group therapy to keep the group safe. And the rules were we weren't allowed to well, the group members weren't allowed to analyze each other, and they weren't allowed to interrogate each other. What they were encouraged to do was to share how they felt, what they observed, and what their experiences have been. So they were allowed and encouraged to say, when you said that, it made me feel such and such. When you did that, it made me feel such and such, or when you shared that, it reminded me of my own experience of such and such. So it's very funny that you're sharing.

And so the structure I often ask people to use because one of the things I didn't mention yet, what could be done during a timeout, is to think about if you have a request of the other person. Very often when you get to your time out, you realize, oh my God, they just fell into my father wound and that's why I've got so much, right. And then there's really nothing for the other person to do differently. There isn't much of a request to be made because that person can be who they are. Right. Our triggers are our triggers, and we can't expect the entire world to contort itself to never trigger us. It's up to us to be responsible with our reactions. Right. So hopefully during your time out, you got some kind of insight into what you felt like you said beautifully, when that person did that, I felt that. And then think about, is there a request I have for them to do something differently? And then there's a three part sentence I suggest someone use, which is when you did blank or said blank, I felt blank. Next time, please blank. So, for example, when you didn't text me back for over 24 hours, I felt like, I don't matter.

Next time, please shoot me a quick text and let me know you're busy and you'll be back to me later. Or something like that, right. Where it's like you're requesting a behavior change and the person can say yes or no to that, but at least you're coming with a clear request. And then the conversation also can take a more constructive turn at that point, because it's really about working out what each person needs as opposed to potentially attacking someone's character, for example.

And that's exactly what I also did in my group therapy. After the piece of this is how I felt, then they were allowed to say, and this is what I would like in the future.

Oh, my God.

They can do the same thing. For example, when you cut me off when I was sharing, I really felt like I wasn't important, and I would really like it if next time I was sharing, you listened until I was finished. And then the other person would well, they would acknowledge I heard what you said, and they would either say, sure, I'll do that, or they would say, I'm not sure if I'll be able to do that because I get really excited and I'm prone to interrupt, but just keep reminding me and I'll do my best. So that was how we ran our group, and people would come for term after term after term because they felt so safe and empowered. So I think that the skills of having a good intimate relationship are the same skills of having any kind of good relationship.

Beautifully said. I agree. And I feel like these are skills that people just aren't taught. So, I want to be super clear that there's no shame in not knowing how to do this well. We go to school to learn our profession, to do all these things, to play sports. We have coaches for all these different things, but we're not taught how to do relationship well, and we're supposed to somehow just know how to love one another. And I firmly believe that it's an area that we need to gain more skill. So having some kind of coaching, teaching, therapy, something that teaches you these skills of how to communicate in a way that you can feel heard and you are advocating for yourself, and you can also listen to someone else in such a way that they feel heard and they feel received. But that will go a long way toward making the world a more loving and generous place to be.

For sure. Well, I'm going to sort of shift gears a little bit because there's something you were talking about before we got started, when you were talking about how the ideal relationship is one in which both people can really be encouraged to be their best self. I'm paraphrasing you, but I have certainly witnessed situations in which one partner will be trying to diminish the other in order to raise themselves up. Right. So they'll try to keep their partner small or silenced. There was a situation that I encountered with one patient whose their partner was subtly undermining their success because they were afraid that if their partner became successful, they would leave them. Actually, I can think of a few patients who had partners like that and, you know, partners who even threatened overtly to leave if my patient continued their therapy, for example, because they were afraid that if they got healthy or they wouldn't depend on the partner. So, you know, there are certainly situations I've encountered in my practice where one partner doesn't want their loved one to be their best self. How do you deal with that in your coaching?

Yeah, I find that so sad when I come across that, when that's the case. I had a client whose therapist had actually been encouraging her to leave her husband for ten years, and she just didn't feel capable at the time. She could have, but it just emotionally was too hard for her. And we began working together, and through the backbone that she began to build with me, she did leave him after about seven months of our work together, and it hasn't been easy. And he still undermines her. And there's still a voice in her own head that sounds like him, that cuts her down. And that's an ongoing work that might even be a lifelong work for her to extricate herself, her identity out of that voice. Does that make sense? What I'm saying?

Yeah. I call it the inner critic, and it usually comes from the parents, and then they find a partner who will mimic it.

Exactly. And so we do a lot of work around that and so sometimes I have another client who her husband was quite critical of her and undermining in many ways. And as she built her strength, she began standing up to him in different ways, not being antagonistic, but by not taking the bait anymore, he would send a barb her way and she would just let it go by. And it so destabilized him that he began to offer to help around the house. His behavior began to shift because the old ways he had of hooking into her and having her feel small no longer were working. It's not to say they're out of the woods per se, but there has been a shift in how they relate and in that case they stay together. So I don't have a blanket thing I do. My work is very customized to whoever I'm working with. And we really assess together. As you begin changing, as you begin getting stronger and more connected to your truth, does the person respond to that in a way that's opening? Very often? What I find is that there's been a desire on the other person's part to see you feeling good and to experience you in your strength.

And if that's the case, the partner often welcomes it and opens to it and they start a new relationship. But sometimes there's this phenomenon where the stronger you get, the more undermining the partner gets because they're trying to keep you locked in the old pattern. Because we lock in with each other like a lock in key. And when you start to shift where the lock is and they're trying to jam their key in the same old hole, that's not fitting anymore. It's your choice at that point. You might have to actually leave if it's impossible for it to shift. But I do notice the other happening. I do notice the other happening where people rediscover each other and they can begin a new way of relating to one another. That's healthier, that's based on supporting one another and being strong and being true to who they are. It all depends on how much the relationship was based on unhealthy patterns in order to exist.

What the foundation was. Right?

Exactly.

What do you think is the most important thing in a good relationship?

Curiosity and respect. Curiosity means you're not assuming you know what they're going to think, what they're going to do. You need to be open to be surprised. I think a lot of times we start to see our partners as a piece of the furniture in the house. We stop even seeing them and their whole people mysterious with these interiors that are infinite and unfathomable. And they may react the same all the time, but they still have the possibility to react differently. And if we write off that possibility because we've decided, oh, if I say this, they're going to say that, so I'm not even going to try, well, then you've given us on a relationship. Like it's on you, but with curiosity, you leave room for surprise, for meeting each other in a new way. And when you respect the other person and you respect yourself, that's where you're not trying to make the other person into you and you're not trying to conform yourself into who you think they want you to be, but you actually get to exist as whole people together. And that's the kind of relationship that I love to bring into being, like love to support, in coming into being because what better way to grow up and to look in the mirror of the person you spend the most time with? Essentially, if you're living together and you see so clearly. Wow, I always react in this one spot. What's that about? It's an opportunity for curiosity. Oh, look at this spot whenever they do that, what's that about? And it's such an opportunity to get to know yourself better, to be curious about them, to be curious about you. So curiosity and respect, I feel go hand in hand in creating great relationships.

I love that answer and it reminded me of something that you had mentioned earlier about how when somebody gets triggered, they have to take responsibility for their trigger and deal with it because it's not on their partner to fix their trigger. I really wanted to ask you to go into more depth about that because that is something near and dear to my heart. Personal responsibility and it goes with my Ruthless Compassion brand. So I'd like to hear your take on that.

Thank you for asking about that because like I said, I so love that your brand is called Ruthless Compassion because in a way I feel like the alchemy of relationship has a ruthlessness to it because it just is what it is. The way you show up in relationship is what it is, what the relationship brings up in you, it just is what it is. And the more we can learn to be with that, with compassion and acceptance. I think it was Carl Jung who said something like to change anything, we have to accept it. It's a terrible whatever the translation properly should be, I don't know. But the gist of what he said was for real change to happen, acceptance has to happen first. And so when I say that you're responsible for your triggers. We each have certain things based on our history that set off our nervous system, that send us into activated fight or flight, that throw us into our animal brain, out of the conscious frontal cortex and into our fight or flight kind of survival brain, out of the logical and into the primitive reaction.

Exactly. Out of the logical, into the primitive, primitive reactor. So when our partner either inadvertently or deliberately because they've learned what sets us off, and they want to set us off for whatever reason, when they step into that, especially when it's accidental, like they don't even know, and all of a sudden, you're in a full blown, activated state, and they have no idea what they did wrong. It's not their fault. As I see it again, if somebody's deliberately provoking you and deliberately trying to put you into that state, that's a different story. And now we've left the coaching realm, and it's going to be more of a therapy conversation to deal with that. But when you have certain spaces in you that you know are reactive to certain situations, that's your work to learn how to navigate that. Because to me, it's a losing game to try to have everybody out there in your life so controlled that they never do anything that sets you off. And I have a history of being controlling. I can tend to be controlling. I have to do a lot of work around trying to be overly controlling because I need a lot of peace in my space to calm the chaos in my head.

But what I've learned over time is that the more I do my own inner work to navigate my nervous system, me do my work, that has me feel spacious, that has me feel capable, that has me feel good, that has me have pleasure in my daily life. The more I take responsibility for that, the less anybody else sets me off because I just have more bandwidth. And I feel like a lot of the times we're running around with such thin bandwidth, it's kind of like the straw that breaks the camel's back. We're running around about to tip over all the time, and somebody just has to look at us funny. And that's not on them, that's on us.

Well, I love that because I have talked about a lot in therapy about how the most controlling people are the ones who are the most anxious and who feel out of control on the inside. And so they're trying to impose control on their external world in order to somehow compensate for what's going on in the inside. And of course, it doesn't work because you got to work on the inside first and then the outside will settle. And the other thing is, with my compassion brand, it's so much about being accountable, taking responsibility and recognizing your part is your part, and their part is their part, and you're not responsible for their part, and they're not responsible for your part. Both people have to work on themselves and come together, both taking responsibility for their own stuff. So we are very aligned in terms of the things that we're talking about and that we're promoting in our practices.

We sure are. And I want to circle back to conflict for a moment with this in mind. Because one of the things that Patrick and I have noticed and worked with a lot in our relationship is a lot of times what's setting up for conflict really has nothing to do like I said before, it's not about the drop sock, but it often has nothing to do with the other person. Like, maybe he's cranky and just needs a snack, right? Or or maybe I was on Zoom too long and I just need to not talk to anybody for half an hour. And the more each of us is tuned in with attention to our own needs and our own state, the better we show up with each other. So we've gotten to the point where we preempt a lot of stuff by just saying, hey, I'm cranky right now. Could you give me a minute? Or hey, you know what? Probably best not to bring that up right at this moment because I'm really hungry and I'm not going to be able to focus, and I'm probably not going to give you the response you want.

Right. So we've gotten very proactive with letting each other know, because we're each tune into ourselves and we tune into each other too. But because we each are very self responsible with our own state, a lot of spats that might have happened in the past just don't happen. And we have a lot more playfulness when we do get into a spat. We have play around it, and it can be like, oh, I'm so cranky, and we can actually play there instead of fighting to the death. That's another thing that I suggest be self responsible with your state upfront well.

So I'm going to add three little agenda to your curiosity and respect in terms of important things in relationships. So based on what you said, you initially talked about Jung saying that we have to accept the things about ourselves. So with Ruthless Compassion, you have to see the truth about yourself, but you can't beat yourself up over it. You have to see it with compassion. With that self compassion, then you're able to let go of bad habits, old patterns, wounds. So I think the three things that are needed are the self-compassion, and then you talked about self-awareness, and then you talked about self-care. So self-compassion, seeing ourselves with compassion, self-awareness so seeing ourselves, but with compassion and then self care, which is what we do when we have that self- awareness with the self--compassion. So I think those three elements that you brought up are also essential for a healthy relationship.

Oh, yeah. Those are core to any healthy relationship. And out of my Chinese medicine background, I developed what I call the five elements of relationship alchemy, which are really the five areas that I have found necessary to work on, have clarity and have skill with in order to have a healthy relationship. And I think that would be very complementary to what we've just talked about. So the five elements of relationship alchemy. The first, and I envision these in a circle, so I'm talking about them in order, but they're not hierarchical, if that makes sense. They're not linear.

It's not 12345.

No. They all flow around each other. So the first is what I call the Polaris Effect. And Polaris is the North Star. And when you have a clear north star for where you want to go and when the relationship has a clear north star meaning you have an idea of what you're about together. Are you together for companionship? Are you together to make babies? Are you together? Is there a deeper purpose of your relationship? Are you together simply for pleasure and enjoyment and not thinking too far in the future? That's awesome, like whatever it is, but having some clarity about where you're headed individually, where you want the relationship to go, I find that is very helpful because you can easily assess am I on track or not? Am I moving toward what I want or not? Is there a behavior I need to change in order to get where I want to go? Okay, let me work to change that. It gives you a benchmark by which you can assess how you're doing.

Number two is real talk, what I call real talk. And that is where a lot of what you and I talked about today lives. It's the listening, the communication, taking a time out, handling conflict more effectively, really being able to be intimate and vulnerable in your communications. And I teach various processes on how to do that and things like that go in there.

The third I call clear mind. And that is really where we address the relationship with yourself. What does yourself talk like? Is your inner critic shredding you all the time? How do you gain leverage? I'm sure you're familiar with this. I do a lot of parts work with people where I will talk to a certain aspect of them. It's also called voice dialogue. It's been called there's other names for it. I've learned it four different ways to shalt and in this way you learn how to relate to the different aspects of yourself that sometimes can be in conflict with each other, which makes it hard like you want to go, oh, I really want to get married, so why am I so avoidant of relationship? Whatever the conflict can be. You start to learn how to be with yourself and be with all the different and sometimes inconvenient and sometimes shadow parts of yourself, that you can love them all and bring them into the light so that your mind can be clear and you can relate more effectively with other people because there's less interference going on inside your own head.

And the fourth I call mastering the dance and it's really the dance of giving and receiving. A lot of us, at least a lot of the people I tend to attract because my own background tend to be overgivers and have a more difficult time receiving. And so how do you build up that receiving muscle? How do you give just the right amount. How do you not over give as a ploy to try to get love? Like all the shenanigans we get into because of our history and what I also put in this mastery in the dance category is how does relationship fit with the rest of your life? Like, if you're a work driven person like I am, I've always loved to work. I'm a hard worker and in the past, that has sometimes caused problems in my relationship. And I see that all the time with the high powered women I work with. It's like there can sometimes be like, can't you see I'm doing this for us? Why are you giving me such a hard time? Give me a break here. I'm working hard for us, but at the same time there might be work that that woman needs to do to allow more receiving, to allow more intimacy.

Right? So I see all of that as a dance and how do you master that dance? And then the last one I call living from desire. And really we get so many messages, not just as women, but really everyone. We get so many messages to not trust our desires that desire is the root of all evil. That desire equal suffering, that desire is bad. And we have to undo all that to really connect to what I call your desire center, which is the source of a lot of your energy and power. And if you don't have permission for your desire and the discernment to know which desires to act on and which just to leave in the unrealized state, that also leads to a loss of lido, leads to loss of energy, you exhaust yourself. We tend to get sick and weak there if we don't have access to and permission for our deepest desires. And again, it doesn't mean you act on every single one. This is not about hedonism, this is about discernment and it's about permission. And so in the Living from Desire piece, it's really about your desires and your overall life as well as your desires in the bedroom.

And how skillful are you at asking for what you want and being able to create the sexual experiences that feel best to you? Also, how skillful are you with allowing room for your desires in your life and backing them yourself? So those are the five elements.

I think that sounds absolutely wonderful and I would like to have like a whole other hour to talk to you about, but I think that's a wonderful thumbnail anyway and definitely something that would encourage people to hook you up and look into your work more because it's certainly very profound the things you're talking about.

Thank you. I so appreciate hearing that from you. Thank you so much. Yeah, it is profound. I'm definitely not the like, three easy hacks to fix your life, but I sense that your listeners aren't that either.

No, because this is definitely not the quick and easy podcast,

Ruthless Compassion Is kind of the antithesis of quick and easy. It's to put in the investment, take responsibility, wake up and see the truth. Speak the truth with compassion. So it's no quick and easy here. Well, this has been really wonderful talking with you today. It's just so fun to talk to somebody who's doing something different, but from a very similar philosophy and who's come to it in their own way. I enjoy that so much because sometimes, you know, one feels like one is on a lonely road with one's work. Right. So it's nice to see, likeminded, individuals who are doing great work out there.

Oh, yes, I totally agree. It's so great to feel such a resonance. I mean, when I saw the title of your podcast, I was like, oh, yes, I would love to come, because I just knew if someone's onto this idea of ruthless compassion, I know we're going to have a great conversation and I'm so grateful to meet. Like you said, a sister on the path has gotten there different ways, but we're speaking such a similar language and it's just so great to meet you.

Thank you. Well, before we end, I always like to ask my guests three things. One is what projects you're doing that might be interesting to the listener, where people can find you and a call to action.

Yeah, well, an exciting project that has recently emerged is my partner Patrick and I actually coaching together. So we both were trained in the similar coaching program. He was trained a couple of years before me. And we haven't been teaching or coaching together, but recently there's been a desire to do that and we've been going live and doing these lives online and it's been super fun to teach. And so and people have been saying, like, when are you going to offer a coaching circle? And so we finally are. And that's going to be coming up pretty soon in the fall. And so if anyone's interested, it's for people who are partnered. If both partners can come, that would be amazing. But if only one of the partners can come, that will still be amazing. And it's really for the purpose of getting both our perspectives on whatever the most stuck or sort of intractable thing is in the relationship or a place where you just really want to expand. We love working with people who are in a fairly good space and want to go to a great space that's also invited. So it will be an intimate circle.

It's going to be two weeks. So there'll be an initial meeting where we kind of get the lay of the land, give an initial practice to do for the week, and then there'll be question and answer throughout the week and then a closing circle where you get sort of like, okay, the next piece of now focus on this for a while and see how that goes. And so if anyone is interested in that, you're welcome to reach out. And the way to find me, my website is .relationshipalchemy.com. My email is hello@relationshipalchemy.com. And I also have an assessment that is a great way for people to begin to connect with my work, with themselves. And it's a relationship assessment. I have one that's for single people, one that's for partnered people, and in about four or five minutes, you can get a really clear snapshot, what's working well, where you're showing up centered and powerful, where things feel good between you or if you're single, how ready you are to start dating. And then it also shows you where to put your attention, what you might want to put your attention on and expand and grow into next.

So for the relationship alchemy assessment, literally, that's the website, Relationshipalchamyassessment.com. And then for the one that's for single folks, it's Relationshipalchamysinglesassessment.com. So just pick the assessment that fits your situation and you're invited to take it and get that snapshot and then start connecting with me.

Sounds wonderful. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Marie-Elizabeth, Mali. It's really been great talking with you. I think there are some very important things that we've talked about today that I think will really benefit the listener and get them on a good track to either improving their current relationship or perhaps starting a new relationship in the near future.

Thank you so much, Marcia. It's been such a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

This is Dr. Marcia, sirota. Thank you for listening. Please leave a review and your comments wherever you listen to podcasts. And don't forget to sign up for my free newsletter at Marcisarota Md.com, where you'll learn about upcoming online events as well. Also, we love getting referrals from our listeners about future podcast guests, so please email us at info at marcia Sirota, Md.com.