90 – Robert Hawke- Thriving After Cancer.mp3 – powered by Happy Scribe

Ruthless Compassion is a podcast about people who have turned their emotional shit into fertilizer for success. It’s about seeing our darkest moments and opportunities for growth and transformation.

Robert Hawk is a comedian, author and speaker. Rob honed his storytelling and comedic skills with the Second City Comedy Troop. He has shared in a Canadian Comedy Award and Gemini Award nomination for Best Writing in a comedy series. Robert creates riveting virtual keynote presentations that give healthcare professionals immediately usable tips and tools to build resilience in these ridiculous times.

Rob wrote the book Kicking Cancer’s Ass: A Light-Hearted Guide to the Fight of Your Life and Doing Happiness, Uncovering The Hidden Benefits of Feeling Good. He lives in Peterborough, Ontario, with his terrific wife and a ridiculously small dog.

Welcome Robert Hawk to the Ruthless Compassion podcast.

Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.

Well, I always like to start out with getting my guests to introduce themselves to the listener and talk a little bit about who they are.

Okay. Well, gosh, my name is Rob, and I am a cancer survivor, I’m a comedian and I’m a speaker. And that’s kind of the thumbnail if you want put, if you want to hang labels on me these days, that’s kind of what is happening.

Right. So, here we are. The first thing you say you’re a cancer survivor, and obviously that’s a big, big thing in your life. But not all cancer survivors become comedians or speakers. So, how are those three things connected?

So, interesting what happened. It’s one of those curve-balls. I was a gosh. I was working full-time in comedy in Toronto and I was absolutely having a ball. Are you familiar with The Second City?

Absolutely. It is a big thing here in Toronto.

Yeah. I worked for the Second City in Toronto, also cross Canada and internationally, too. And what that really means is I was having a blast making improve comedy with my friends. That’s how that translates. And it was a wonderful, extraordinary experience. I worked with some fantastically, talented people, and I got to say, the opportunity to just stand up in front of a group of people like say, 500 people and make stuff up is one of the most thrilling and terrifying things you can do. So I feel very blessed that I was able to do that.

So, I was doing that and having a blast and riding my bike around Toronto, going to auditions and doing voice work, and went to my physician. And he looked at me and said, hey kid, you got cancer. And it was a huge shock. Yeah, it was a very, very big shock because I was completely unprepared for it. And going through that journey of being a patient then changed everything in that it radically shifted my career. So, now I’m doing this work. So, that’s kind of what happened there.

It was a real game-changer for me, for sure.

How many years ago was this?

How long was it?

I don’t know, 14 years ago now. Something like that.

So, that’s a nice little.

It’s giving you a chink of time.

Now I feel more comfortable. I’m not freaked out anymore. So that’s great.

Yeah, I can imagine. How is your health these days?

Really good, actually, very well. And it’s one of those things where I know you said gosh, you mentioned at first, and I did. But in my personal life, I don’t mention it first anymore. And that’s one of those great things about a little bit of distance and a little bit of time. After a while, you go through something like a cancer experience or some other traumatic experience. And for a while, it feels like it defines you. And then after you deal with it and kind of get used to it and kind of find a place for it in your life, then you can kind of get back to being yourself again, which I’m crazy about.

So, how did your comedy? How is it affected by being a person going through cancer treatment and then a person who has gone through cancer treatment.

Oh, man. That was really something else. Yeah, I find comedy very powerful. Comedy and improvisation, I think, are almost magic. And I’m barely kidding. Through comedy and improvisation I have seen, I’ve worked on books, I’ve worked on plays. I’ve seen plays created purely out of improvisation. All that stuff happen. And then to have this kind of come into my life, my biggest coping mechanism was comedy. So, I immediately started talking about it, immediately started making content about it. I created a one-man show with a very good friend of mine called, The Polite Version Is FU Cancer.

And I co-created that with Michael Cohen. And we had just a fantastic time, and that was quite transformative because I would notice sometimes after a performance, and we created it to make people laugh, give people comfort. I found that that folks really responded. I was really nervous dealing with this, but sometimes I do a performance and somebody would just come up to me. I’d never met them. They just come up to me, give me a hug and walk away, you know? So, it was a wonderful experience, being able to talk about this stuff and making it safe for people to laugh about, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah, it was neet.

In terms of your emotions, because I know that being treated for cancer, having to face cancer and your immortality brings up a lot of feelings. How did making fun around cancer affect you on an emotional level?

That is a fantastic question, it made things way easier for me and for, I think, everybody else, too. And this was a long time ago. I was doing this show now, but, I mean, I got to kill cancer every night. I did the show, you know what I mean? And that was fantastic. So, I was like, well, this is cheaper than therapy, which is great. But yeah, it made it a lot easier. And I think it made it easier for other folks who are watching it as well.

And in fact, so much of what I do now is, is about that. It’s about making it okay to talk about things. I work an awful lot now with medical professionals talking about the patient experience and being a comedian that having cancer got me in that door, you know, and that was a heck of a door to get into. I was doing this crazy play and somebody in health care, you know, looks at me very progressive person in health care and said, why don’t you come on over here and work in this environment?

And I said, alright. And before I knew it, I was creating content for University Health Network, you know, as part of one of their cancer programs. And that was amazing. That was amazing, but comedy was always the way in. Comedy was always the way in, you know.

For sure, and when you say you are creating content, what are you talking about? What are you referring to?

Well, this is fun. You can’t see me, but I’m rubbing my hands with glee going, oh, this was so cool. I was given a heck of an opportunity where they had a group of cancer patients and their families. And they were like, well, can you create something? So, I created workshops for people going through cancer and their families, all of them involving comedy, involving improvisation, involving making people laugh and then giving them a safe space to talk about what they were going through. And I didn’t have no idea if this was going to work.

None, zero, nada. But I got to say, you know, this people are brave. People are brave, people are resilient. So, I was absolutely amazed at how generous people going through cancer were and their families and how ready they were to deal with the big stuff. You know, it was quite moving. It was absolutely moving. And I’d get them get folks up doing improve games and having a great time and laughing. And then an hour later, they would be talking about what it means to be mortal, you know, and sharing insights on how we could all get through the process easier.

So, it was a real oh, I’m thinking about it now is such an honor to be able to be a part of that.

For sure, when you’re talking, I keep thinking of things that I’ve experienced in my life about the power of humor, you know, times when I have brought in very dark situations. I remember doing a group therapy with trauma survivors and I found myself constantly cracking jokes. And am I being inappropriate here with my trauma survivor patients? But my patients always said that it was so helpful because it would break the tension. So, they would get to this point that was almost intolerable in talking about their trauma and reading the trauma.

And then I would make a bad joke and they would crack up. And then everyone would kind of relax. And then we could sort of shift and then keep going. So I could see how important the humor was. And then, the group members started cracking jokes and let go with their mind. So, we actually made it a thing. And so I could see how powerful and healing and empowering humor was. So, I’m just wondering, what is your experience in terms of the power of humor.

Very, very similar to that. And I’m going to say, kudos to you for doing that. Honestly, there aren’t many medical professionals who would be brave enough to do that. So, I’m literally doing a talk on that on Friday, so well done. So, there you go.

Yeah, I think your question was like, oh, my God, the experience with humor, it takes the Mickey out of things. Do you know what I mean? We can be in a pretty desperate situation. Those desperate situations are real. Like, honestly, sometimes things are tough. If we can laugh at it and some kind of a self- affirming way, as you said, it takes the tension out of it, it can take the fear out of it. If you’re with somebody else, you feel automatically like you have somebody on your side.

You also feel like they understand you. There’s a lot of understanding in humor. You know what I mean? Like, oh, I see where you are. I understand where you are. There’s empathy in it, if you understand what I mean. And I was always amazed at how people were really okay with joking about some things that sound pretty terrible. You know what I mean? You’ve got to be careful. You’ve got to know if it’s appropriate, you’ve got to know your audience. But, the folks I was working with, they were ready to fly.

And it was lovely. And these days, too, it’s one of those things. And, you know, you worked with people going through trauma. That with the pandemic, we’ve all gone through trauma. We’ve all been terrified, we’ve all suffered isolation. A whole bunch of us have suffered from depression. And I think humor is, like the best tool. It’s the best tool. It’s fantastic. Oh, gosh. I could launch into all the medical benefits of humor right now. I don’t know if you want that.

As you’re talking, I’m just remembering Norman Cousins, who I think he had a diagnosis of cancer, and he spent all this time watching movies like comedy movies like The Marx Brothers and things like that and he laughed himself well.

And he laughed himself well, he laughed himself well, and you know what? There is science behind that. There’s serious science behind it. I do one of the things I’ve been talking about literally for twelve years, about every talk is the healing power of laughter. And everybody says laughter is the best medicine is a phenomenal medicine. It is laughter is better than most antidepressants on the market. You know, funny enough, they’re not talking about that. But laughter is a better antidepressant. So, we will feel better sometimes, not just for the time we’re laughing.

Say we laugh for a minute or 30 seconds. That 30 seconds of laughter will help us feel better for three or 4 hours afterward. Like it’s phenomenal. It increases dopamine and serotonin and reduces cortisol and cortisol in our systems when we feel terrible when we’re in pain. So, you could say that laughter is a pain reliever, completely natural.

And it releases endorphins, which is our pleasure hormone.

All that stuff. And it does it immediately. So, I tell you, too, will I use on a regular basis, you might as well. Marcia, is I have a playlist on YouTube of just funny stuff, really funny stuff that just makes me laugh. And I watch it virtually every night, you know? So, I literally laugh for 15 or 20 minutes before I go to bed every night. It’s fantastic.

I want you to send that to me.

I will.

Please, I really want to watch that because, I have.

SNL has fantastic stuff. I’ve got some stuff that always makes me laugh.

Absolutely. No, I love a good belly laugh. And I have been turning off now Netflix shows lately because I start watching them. And although they might be well written, they’re just too dark. And it’s like, I’m not in the mood for this darkness. I want to laugh. I want humor, i want some comedy.

I 100% agree with you. And see, the thing is especially with Netflix stuff, because this stuff is so well written. Oh, my gosh. Some of their programming is fantastic, but it is dark, and it can kind of take you down that dark rabbit hole. And I’m wondering these days if it’s really worth that. You know what I mean? Like, I don’t know. I don’t need the darkness right now. I’m covered there. Yeah, hitting some stand up. It’s a fantastic thing. Fantastic thing.

I don’t know if you had this experience talking to people who’ve gone through traumatic experiences, but in my experiences and as a therapist, some of my patients who have a history of trauma have this kind of strange attraction to the darkness. And so they will read about trauma. They will read about bad things that remind them of their own trauma. And of course, they will Re-traumatize themselves, but they find that they are unable to stop doing this. It’s almost like they’re trying to figure something out by reading this material or watching it on TV.

But then it just makes them feel worse. And I keep telling them you have to stop reading and watching these things because they’re not good for you. And maybe what I need to start telling them is to watch comedy shows. Watching comedians in cars getting coffee.

Yes, it’s a great one. Yeah, that’s absolutely a great one. I think you’re absolutely right. And I’ve certainly noticed that maybe not with folks I’ve worked with so much, but certainly in my own life. Like, it’s one of those things. The idea that what I look for, I will find more of, you know what I mean? If I’m looking for true crime stuff about some crazy killer somewhere, and then I go down that road, literally, Netflix is going to hand me more of that. You know what I mean?

So, I’m going to feel terrible again, but, yeah, it’s one of those things. I think sometimes we need to literally and figuratively change the channel on what we’re focusing on. And it is a very basic but a very important skill. You know, I just put on there people at some folks I just put on Ricky Gervais always makes me laugh. Eddie Izzard always makes me laugh.

I love Eddy Izzard so much.

And remarkably brave, like.

Wonderful.

Eddie, you know, she doesn’t care. She was so up front about it. She was like, yeah, I changed my pronoun and everybody freaked out. So what? To her, it’s a non-event. You know what I mean, which is how it should be.

She’s been wearing dresses and nail Polish for decades, so it wasn’t a big stretch for her.

Yes, she has always been brave and she’s always had incredible, timing and incredible humor.

Yes, and you hit the brave word because doing stuff about religion that I’m just like, I would not touch that. And I’m just flabbergasted and the audience is so with her every stretch of the way. So, there you go, yeah. Eddie Izzard, holy cow, we just missed seeing her in concert in Toronto, just missed. I don’t know if you were aware, but she was just there for like a one night and we’re like ugh but, yeah, there you go.

Yeah, I heard about it. But, you know, it’s Covid times.

So, Covid times. It’s gonna be the name of our era.

Covid times.

Yeah.

Like the plague years. The Covid years.

You know what? Yeah, you’re right. It’s one of those things. You don’t really know what time you’re in until it’s past, but that’s what it’s gonna be.

So, here you are now, you’re a speaker. How does it feel? What’s the difference for you being a speaker versus being a comedian? Which identity have you traded from one to the other?

You know what? I thought it was gonna be so remarkable. I’ll tell you what the difference is. Mostly the difference is the title. You know, that’s pretty much it. But, I love being in front of an audience, whether it’s virtual or whether it’s live. In these days, it’s more virtual than live. But, it was such a wonderful opportunity to be to essentially take my comedy skills. You know, all the improv stuff, all the storytelling stuff, everything. And then marry that with some content that’s hopefully meaningful. I think it is.

And then essentially do a one man show for an audience. So, there’s not that, I guess the biggest difference is the audience. And now I don’t get paid in slices of cake anymore. So that’s good.

Too bad, too bad. You’re missing a lot of good cake.

That is good point, man. You get some chocolate Mocca cake at the end of the night. That was pretty cool. But, yeah, it’s like the audiences are different. If I’m speaking to a group of medical professionals, like pharmacists, physicians or nurses or a group of patients. whatever it is, once you get past the introduction, everybody is just an audience, you know. So, I’m really thrilled with that. I’m always happy to perform.

Well, now we are entering the interrogation section of this interview. I’m going to ask you some questions. So, the first question I want to ask you is, what was the worst thing about your cancer experience?

Oh, man, that is I don’t know that I’ve ever been asked that, but that’s a great question, and I want to give you a truthful answer. So, I’m just going to start with one. I think depression. Depression well, I will put it together with isolation, depression and isolation. They were tough at the time I lived alone, I had lots of family and friends who helped me a lot and kudos to them. They’re wonderful folks. But, if you’re going through something like this, whether it’s this or a different trauma, there is a time where you’re going to be alone.

And I had a lot of those nights where I just did not know I was depressed. I was broke. I did not know what was going on with my body. I didn’t know if I was going to work again. I was in a lot of pain. And, yeah that was that, that was the toughest thing. That was the toughest thing.

We call that being in the shit.

It was totally in the shits. It was. And I think one of the things about that is you feel so terribly alone when you’re in it. And I’m wondering if you share this opinion. But then after a while, you realize, oh, I’m not the only one who feels this way. And that was actually a big deal for me when I realized I think I’m the only one who is gone through this, which is ridiculous, of course. But, then when you realize that and you start to find some people who go, I did that, too.

I had something kind of similar, then you go okay. Okay, maybe I can live through this thing now.

That’s very helpful. So, I’m going to ask you another question now. So, interrogation question number deux, what was the best thing about your cancer experience?

Oh, wow. I think you’ve been to one of my workshops. Seriously, one of the things I used to ask people, very similar questions. Wow, what is one of the best things? I think and this is now with years in hindsight, I am living much more authentically now than I was before. And I think that’s been the biggest blessing, because and that is that is the gift of mortality. That is absolutely the gift of mortality, when you do something, you have a heavy trauma. You go through a bad disease, you get the realization that, you know, we have an expiry date.

And so, all those choices, they become much more direct. Who am I going to hang out with? Who are my friends? Who are my true friends? How do I want to spend my time? How do I want to spend my career, which was a big thing for me. And then, it they’re very directly led me down a different path than I would have been on, and that I am very thankful for.

That’s great. Okay, number three . What is the most surprising thing about this journey for you?

Oh, gosh. The nost surprising thing.

Yeah, something that really was like: Whoa.

I think I think it’s how awesome people are. Like, I really liked people before, but everyone I met, like, the vast majority of people I met during this process and the vast majority of fellow patients and people in health care, just how well intentioned everybody is and just how much we have in common. Everybody in the world thinks they’re so different. We’re so truly like, we know some of us like blue, some of us like red, whatever. But, when it comes down to it, a lot of us are having very similar experiences and have very similar concerns. So, that was a lovely surprise.

Okay, last question in the interrogation portion of this. So, what did you find out about yourself that you realized you needed to change because of this journey. What was your Aha, I got to let go of this one.

I got that, I got that covered. So, got that covered. A big thing for me was stop wasting time. The big thing was stop wasting time. I realized I could make just because I wasn’t, I don’t think at the time I was really being brave enough where if I was in a situation that wasn’t the best or I was like, well, you know, if that particular thing happens for another year, it’s not that big a deal, even though it’s not perfect. Or, I was thinking about doing that this year.

But, I’ll wait two years. You don’t do that anymore. I realize that had to change, the whole if I’m going to have a life, I better have it now. I better have it now. I better, I better eat dessert first. Sometimes, you know, better write down the places I actually want to travel to. And I know that’s tricky now, but actually go there and not wait till I’m 70, you know, but, like, really. Do that stuff. So, that was the big thing was to stop wasting time and get on with it, whatever it is.

One of the things I’ve learned through witnessing some people pass from various diseases is that if there’s anything you want to say to somebody, say it to them now and never go to bed in the middle of a fight because the mornings are not guaranteed, right?

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I gotta say I keep oh, gosh, I know you’re all about happiness and you’re about feeling good, but I’m gonna take a little bit of a dive, and I keep getting this lesson in my life again and again and again. It keeps coming up. My mom, who is incredibly strong and wonderful. She’s in long term care now, and that’s tough, right? So, I was visiting her and seeing her. I had a visit with her, and she just looked at me and we’ve always talked very, very openly.

And she just looked at me, like, with total honesty, and the visit was wrapping up. She just looked and said, Rob, I said, yeah mom, what do you want to say? You want to say something to me? I can tell. She said, Enjoy all of it, enjoy all of it. Just you don’t even understand son. Just the simplest of things, really love them. And I went, okay, okay. You know, it was a lovely gift, right? It was a fantastic thing to hear.

Sometimes, we have a bad experience, and it kicks us in the teeth, and it helps us have an attitude adjustment. And if we’re lucky enough to use it as that kind of opportunity, then we can recognize some of the bad attitudes that we’ve gotten into the habit of carrying around with us, like complaining or not appreciating. Everything sort of finding fault with everything. And when we get that kick in the teeth and we start feeling that gratitude and that appreciation and that recognition of how precious life is, it’s a gift if we can use it, right?

Yeah, absolutely. And it’s one of those things, too. I mean, if we feel bad occasion, it’s like, whatever I feel bad today, it’s all right. It’s not the end of the world. But, I think the recognition of like, you’re saying, the recognition of like, you know what? Let me appreciate more, let me just appreciate it a little bit more today and see how that goes. I think there’s so much good stuff for us there, you know, and there’s resilience there. It’s one of those things. I’m researching a new book, and feeling good is literally powerful for us.

It brings us more resources. You know, when we feel good, the world gets easier. It’s easier for us to make relationships. It’s easier for us to forgive people. We’re literally more creative. We are braver. Like, all those things happen when we feel good, which I find really interesting, right?

Yeah. Well, so I lied. I have one more interrogation question for you. And after thought, I thought it was a good one. How can I phrase it? So, if someone has a really difficult traumatic experience, sometimes they want to shut down emotionally to protect themselves.

Yes.

Okay. And I’m sure you’ve met some people who’ve done that, and then other people will use that experience to kind of open their heart. So, I always say that when your heart is broken, it can be broken open. Right, and then you can oh.

That is a wonderful quote, that’s a wonderful quote. And your heart is broken open. Yeah, I get it. Yeah.

So, how do you account for some people just shutting it all down and say, okay, I’m gonna be tough. I’m just gonna tough it out. I’m not gonna feel it, and then all the attendant consequences versus the people who say, okay, you know what? I’ve just been blasted, and I’m just going to let my heart open, and I’m going to feel it all. What do you make of all that?

That’s a very interesting thing. I think some of that goes to straight up introvert, extrovert stuff. You know, I think extroverts are more likely to kind of barf their feelings everywhere, which is what I did. Seriously, I would like, end up talking to the streetcar driver. I was just like, I was a mess, right. But, I think folks who kind of internalize it, it’s I think it’s all about our initial coping mechanism. You know, if we talk a lot and we’re open people, we’ll probably talk about it a lot.

If we’re introverts and we are way to protect ourselves and feel better is to go internal, we do that. But, I don’t think either of those is final. Do you know what I mean? Like, if we shut down or someone goes internal and is very quiet with all this stuff, I think that’s okay. But, I don’t think it’s necessarily the end of the story. When I was always amazed at this. When I was doing workshops with people going through cancer, somebody there would be some who was like, maybe out of their treatment for two or three months.

And I was like, okay, this person in the group is not going to say a word, and I just got to respect that and let it be okay. And then two hours later, they would be dropping wisdom on the group. Like, you would not believe, you know, they just sit and wait for their turn, and then they speak and everybody would just go, wow, okay. Thanks. So, I think that’s one of those things where we kind of do what we need to do, and our psyche knows.

Our psyche knows. Sometimes, I think our psyche is way smarter than we are. Do you know what I mean? Or is that crazy?

No, I think you’re right.

I think you’re right. I think I think you’re answering a slightly different question.

Probably.

No, maybe I didn’t phrase it clearly enough. But you’re really referring to people who actually talk about their feelings and people who internalize their feelings. And I’m really talking about people who are in touch with their feelings versus people who shove them all down away from their conscious awareness and the differences between those two kinds of experiences.

Yeah, I think, and again, I’m biased because I’m an extrovert.

Really, I have not noticed.

Yeah, I know. It’s craziness, drives people crazy. I go to the hardware store and make three new friends. Seriously, Oh Larry hey, how many years to your retirement? Was I going to say yes, I think for me personally, I think it’s way healthier to give your feelings an outlet, because I think it’s going to happen either way, we’re going to deal with it either way. And I think sometimes if we have a lot of internalized, negative feelings that we have not resolved at all, I think there’s danger of it turning into a serious depression, of us feeling helpless, of us turning to a substance until it’s a problem, and it becoming an addiction.

Just because we’ll do anything to cope, we’ll do anything to feel better. So, for those reasons, I think it’s better to have some kind of outlet to get it out. Did I answer your question better there?

Absolutely, and when you talked about how depression is not about sadness, depression is about not connecting to the feelings. I totally agree with you because some people do misunderstand depression. They think that when you get really, really sad, that’s depression. But, to me depression is when you get really, really, really sad and then shove all the feelings away.

Yes.

And then you feel numb and dad inside that’s depression.

And you’re disconnected from the world and the folks you love and care about are all going what happened to you? Where did you go? You’re just gone, right? You know? Yeah.

And you’re disconnected from yourself.

Absolutely, absolutely.

To me, your feelings are what tell you who you are and how you feel and what you want and what you need. They’re like your most important sense.

I think something, too. And tell me if you agree on this, too. I’m finding more and more, especially with the pandemic, and especially with everybody’s mental health being challenged or most folks mental health being challenged. I think forgiveness is like, the biggest thing. Like, sometimes I get really down on myself. It’s like, oh, I’m this or I’m that or I’m. And it’s like, you know, we’ve all just come through. Pardon me, a bit of a shit storm. Let’s just relax on ourselves. Right? Let’s just make it okay.

You know, at least that is where I’m coming from.

I totally agree, one of the things I worked with patients on for the last twenty years is getting them to love and accept themselves, and a lot of that has to do with forgiving themselves, for whatever mistakes they might have made, bad choices, bad relationships, bad directions because they didn’t do it because they were bad people. They did it because of whatever psychological reasons. And so self-forgiveness is so important just being easier on ourselves. This is called the Ruthless Compassion podcast because the philosophy is ruthless compassion.

And ruthless compassion is about seeing the truth about ourselves, each other in the world, but with a kind and gentle attitude. So, we can look at our bad choices, our mistakes, our difficulty, our repetitive dysfunctional patterns. But instead of beating ourselves up with that knowledge, we can take that knowledge and then use it for positive change. So, to me, self-forgiveness is super important. And it makes everything possible, because when we’re beating ourselves up, we can’t grow, we can’t change because I would say.

It’s one of the thing, the ironies, because when we’re beating ourselves up, we’re trying to motivate ourselves or fix ourselves or be different. But, when we’re beating ourselves up, that’s virtually impossible. You shut down all your resources. When you relax on yourself, help yourself feel a little better and feel okay, all of a sudden, things start to roll your way again. Something else.

Like I would say.

I always see that you cannot make positive change in an atmosphere of self-negativity. So, that self-gentleness self-acceptance. Self forgiveness is kind of the beginning of a lot of positive growth.

Yeah, right on. Oh, that’s marvelous.

So, last last question.

Sure.

What’s your biggest kind of life lesson from this whole journey? Like, what was your big lightbulb moment?

Okay, yeah. My big Aha moment was there’s not that much to be scared of. There’s not that much to be scared of, all the stuff that I’m usually scared of. So what?

So what? And again, you go through a trauma, go through a big thing, and after a while, you’re like, oh, well, you know, contacting that person who I find intimidating. What’s gonna happen? Who cares?

It’s not going to kill you, right?

It’s not gonna kill me, it’s not going to be as bad as the last six months were. Who cares? Yeah, and also talking to somebody trying for a job or, in my case, being on stage or being in front of a specific audience, whatever it is, it’s like, you know what? None of it is that scary. None of it is that scary. And then once you realize that, there’s an awful lot of power in that.

You are graced with the gift of perspective.

Yes, yes. That’s an excellent way of putting that, that’s true.

And not too many people get that opportunity. I mean, if you’re going to have to go through cancer, you might as well get a few gifts.

You might as well get stuff from it. And again, when I was doing work with the Hope workshop and I was having a bunch of folks going through cancer and their families in the room, that was always my last question. And you’re already there, which was, which was always like, what good has come from this? What positive insights? Or meaningful insights have you had? And I was terrified the first time I asked that question. I thought I was going to get punched. Like, literally. I was like, all right, these people are just going to be angry at me.

But I held my breath and I asked the question, and everybody in the room had an answer. Everybody in the room had an answer, and some of them were very big and very deep. Like, now I know I’m mortal, and then some of them were like, now I eat my dessert first. Now, I hug my kids more and I’m like, okay, fantastic.

Well, so winding down now, I just thought maybe it would be nice for you to share with listeners. What are the projects that you’re currently working on?

Well, thank you so much for asking. I got to say I love being a speaker, and I love being in front of audiences and creating content. I’ve been working as a speaker now in health care for quite a while. And one of the talks I do is called Connecting with Patients: The Final Frontier. It’s all about how medical professionals can make a huge difference in the lives of their patients just by connecting with them as human beings. So, I’m thrilled to deliver that message. And I’m actually doing that in a couple of days for a group, a national organization.

And also, I’ve got another one called Feel Good First: Comedy Is Your Secret Weapon. And it’s just how all of us can benefit from comedy and use comedy and use laughter and humor in our lives just to feel more powerful, feel good and reduce stress. So, that’s what I’m up to.

It sounds like some fun stuff.

Yeah, it’s a lot of fun. And if folks want to reach me, they can do so actually, the best thing to do is go on Google and search Robert Hawke Speaker, and you’ll get me.

And that’s H-A-W-K-E.

That is correct, yes.

Wonderful. So, just to end, what would be your call to action for the listener? What would you encourage them to consider or to do out of our conversation today?

Wow, that’s something. I would encourage folks to think of something accessible that they’ve always wanted to do and haven’t done, and then take the first step to doing that. Whether that’s asking out the person who you think is completely out of your league, whether it’s reading a book you always wanted to read, whether it’s going to for walk in a certain place, whatever it is. But one of those simple terrific things you’d love to do for yourself. And just give it a shot. That’s what I’d say.

Yeah, we don’t have a guarantee of tomorrow.

No, we don’t. And again, everything is so accessible, of course, except for travel and airplanes. But, you know what I’m saying? See, if this was pre-pandemic, I’d be like, jump on a plane and go to Spain, which is where I want to go. But, you can’t say that now. Do groovy stuff, just do it close to home, right?

Wonderful, well, listen, Robert Hawke, it’s been a pleasure talking with you today, and I think there’s been a lot of important things said and a lot of wonderful food for thought for the listener. So really, I appreciate you coming on the show.

Marcia, thank you so much. It’s just been an absolute blast. And I got to say, on behalf of your listeners, thank you for doing this. I’m sure you’ve brought so many wonderful resources to people. So, stuff like this matters, it matters a lot. So, on behalf of them, I’m saying thank you to you.

That was the delightful Robert Hawke. And I’m Dr. Marcia Sirota. If you like this podcast, please review it wherever you listen, and you can sign up for my free bi-weekly wellness newsletter at MarciaSirotaMD.Com, where you’ll also learn about my new online courses and my YouTube video series on coping with Covid.