91 - Raymond Van Gobel - The Best Ways to Support People with Major Mental Health Conditions.mp3 - powered by Happy Scribe

Ruthless Compassion is a podcast about people who have turned their emotional shit into fertilizer for success. It's about seeing our darkest moments and opportunities for growth and transformation. Raymond Van Gobel is Mr. Rays, a kids entertainer, an educator with heart on a mission to help kids find their courage and be brave. He also has managed Bipolar Effective Disorder for over 22 years, and he has learned mental health strategies and ways to courageously battle mental illness with all its challenges. He was recently on the board of Obad.ca, the Organization for Bipolar Effective Disorder, where he is part of a team of peer group support specialists in the leading mental health peer group in Alberta.

Ray makes his home in Calgary and is a divorced, single dad to three fast growing kids currently in middle school and high school.

Welcome Ray Van Gobel to the Ruthless Compassion Podcast.

Hi! Thanks for having me again.

It's absolutely my pleasure. We talked a little while ago and it's great to have you back on the show because I think what we're going to be talking about today is very, very important. So let's just before we start, just remind the listener who you are and what you do.

Okay. My name is Ray Van Gobel. I work as Mr. Rays, a kids educated entertainer, based out of Calgary, Alberta. Right now, I do a lot of virtual Zoom shows. I'm the new content producer for Kids Soda Channel at Vulcan television, and I've just been really strong about sharing my story of new disorders and my brain based illness with bipolar disorder.

Alright. So yeah, you were saying that recently you went through a difficult time. You want to share that with the listeners?

Yeah. So last time on our first interview, I was talking about children in mental health and that was probably, I think just before summer time and I was just going really hard with my business. And my thing is I'm a high flyer, so I do more of the kind of getting high and kind of manic, as opposed to being depressed. And so I've been able to manage this for the past 20 years. Or if I'd get a little too high, I catch myself, be self aware and just be able to be normal and kind of not crash into a depression too often.

But this fall I was just working so much and I was like putting in probably 50 hours weeks and just going and going and I just got into a hyperbaric state. And usually, I'm able to catch myself. But just circumstances with the family, Covid, pivoting a brand new business, from being in-person to being on-screen. I just finally had enough of it by the time November came around. And so, what happened was I ended up kind of crashing hard. There was like effects to my FAM that happened afterwards that I'm still dealing with the consequences of but when I got really sick, part of it was I have ADHD and bipolar disorder.

And so there's a lot of overlap between symptoms and racing thoughts and stuff. And the problem with ADHD medication is if you have too much of it, it could spin you off into mania. So I was taking Adderall. I get a small amount just to help me focus. And when I was a little too high, I thought to myself, I bet you if I have two Adderall, it'll help you focus more.

Oh, no.

I know, because a lot of people, they get diagnosed with depression, and then once they get an up early Prozac or Adderall, they spin off into mania, and then they get diagnosed with bipolar disorder. So yeah, so I took two Adderall, and I was up all night and like my kids, I've been with them since my divorce for seven years. Go half a week every Sunday to Wednesday, they are with me. And that night, that I was super high, my girls were scared, you know, no question about it. I was, like, erratic. They were texting their mom all night to come and get them. And there's nothing worse than not being in control of your body.

You know, it's like being violated because there was part of me that was saying, why am I talking so fast? Why am I not able to slow down? What's going on with me? And I was trying to do things to ground myself. But there's a point in your illness where you need medication because it's a brain based illness and not just needed to get a tweak, to get better. Yeah, it was a rough night. Actually, the police came to me twice, to pick me up with the ambulance and everything.

First time they came, like I mentioned that I've led peer support groups. I'm a facilitator for that, as well as I was on the board for OBAD. So I was helping direct this organization for Bipolar Affective Disorder and how we would bring change to people and how we would help people. So I knew all the answers. And when the policeman came in, I was like, I'm Ray, it's 5'o clock Tuesday, December 11th, and I just gave them everything they needed and just held myself together until they left.

And I was only committed the second time because my mentor, who's a family therapist, kept phone in to check-in on me, to make sure that I was going to the hospital and instead the police say okay, I think you seem kind of conscious of what you're doing. Why don't you go to sleep and we'll check on you in a couple of hours. So the police leave, and I knew they'd be coming back. And I was in this creative manic state. So I was, like, playing guitar, and I was working on my songs, and I saw out of the window, like, an hour later, blue and red flashing lights.

So I turned all the lights in the house off, and I hid under my desk, and the police came, and they were just sitting in my parking spot, flashing their lights. And when they saw that everything was calm, they left five minutes later. And then I turned the lights on, and I kept, meaning, just staying up all night, doing my stuff. I know, it wasn't until they came the second time that I realized I really need help. I need to go to the hospital. And I had a friend that was on Latin Zoom, and I had another friend that was just confirming who I was when the police came.

And then, yeah, they took me to the hospital, and I got put into, like, the holding cell room before they can put you into the psych ward. And I remember, I was just starting to get a bit more loosey because the Adderall was wear off. But I still knew I was sick and I was still pretty high. And I said, I don't have my medications. I'm not responsible. What happens tonight? But if I could get them, that would be great. And so they were like, no, you'll be fine.

So, they put me into this holding cell and I went to sleep. I woke up the next day and I was super groggy. And I said, what happened last night, and they said, oh, well, you woke up and you were punching people out. You're punching and you're being really aggressive. I totally don't remember any of that. But I do remember that they must have given me a shot of something to help me settle.

So when you ask for your medication, they should have listened to is basically what you're saying.

Totally. I was like, Hello, I need my mute stabilizer. That's the first time, I've had working with this mental illness for 20 years. And so this fall was the first time I had a break in 20 years, and have to be sick enough that I needed more help. So, yeah, I knew that, give me more medication. I need to sleep. If I don't sleep, things are not going to go well for myself.

So you said that you had learned some things about how to deal with this. What kind of things did you learn from this experience? Because it sounds like a pretty hard, hard experience to go through. What was your learning?

Oh, man. Part of it was like, I've always the first eight years of me having bipolar disorder. What happens is you just don't believe it. You live in denial, and people are telling you that you're still depressed and you're a little bit high and stuff and you're like, I'm not sick. That's a terrible stigma. I don't want to have bipolar disorder. So I did not deal with it for the first while. And then when I met my peer support group, which is the OBAD, I found people that were like myself, and that could relate to me and some are teachers, several photographers, artists, executives and businesses.

And I learned that you could just focus on your triggers and get well, as well as, get talk therapy. The skills I had before I got really sick were the things that we talk about in for support. I had a good Med cocktail. So, I worked with a psychiatrist to make sure that a mood stabilizer as well as anti-anxiety, because those are the two things that push my buttons. And then I made sure I had a good diet. I made sure I did some mindfulness in per every day just to slow myself down and exercise.

It's so holistic. Gone are the days where you think you get, like, what are two pills and that will help solve everything. You just need to really be in track with who you are. So after I had this huge crash. I was there for, like, three weeks in the hospital. And then after that, when I came out, I had more intense therapy. And I realize that some of the stuff that happens, I don't believe that bipolar disorder. Well, I guess because it's nature versus nurture. But I just think people have a propensity for this.

And then when a perfect storm comes of, like, psychological and emotional and mental crisis, that's when your brain can break. And so that's what happened with me. After I got out. I kept using the same skills before, being holistic. But I also learned there's a point where I need more medication. Now, the terrible thing about illness is that they get worse as you get older. So I've been pretty, pretty fortunate in the past 20 years. This is my second hospitalization. But now, I'm at the point now where because of the therapy I've had, I've learned that when I get too high or too low, especially the high part. Okay, I've done all of my self care skills. I've tried to do yoga, I've tried to eat better. I've tried to take extra medication to sleep. I need something else. So now it's kind of neat, because usually I can go to, like, third and fourth gear. And I figure I'm okay. Now when I go to the third gear, I go, okay, wake up. If you're not able to look after yourself here, you should take your extra mood stabilizer. I think that's been kind of the game changer.

Well, I'm so happy to hear you say that, because lately I've been doing a lot of independent psychiatric assessments. So these are these long form interviews to get a diagnosis and then make treatment recommendations with people. And we get toward the end of the interview, which is usually around an hour and a half or 2 hours long, very lengthy process. You go through everything. And then I say, okay, well, I'm going to make some recommendations about medication. And almost invariably the person says, oh, I don't really like the idea of taking medication and these are people who are quite significantly unwell, right?

They're sent to me because they're very unwell and they need help, but they almost all try to refuse medication initially because they have all these ideas about it. They're weak, they're weak if they take it or they're gonna get addicted to it, or they should be able to talk themselves out of their mental health problems.

Right.

Or all these things, right.

You don't know what happened is that we see this in group all the time is that you have one really bad experience with meds, and then you write all of them off. So you're sick, you show up at a group and like my doctor tried to medicate to sedate me, just to knock me out, because honestly, there's psychiatrists and there's doctors that are out there. And I'm sure they're burned out, but they would rather medicate to sedate and have someone just kind of not live that full life and to have to tweak medications so that people can be like me and you're able to function, to have a quality of life where you're not flat.

But I always encourage people. It's a night cocktail. If you can work with your psychiatrist and you can bring a note pad with your mood graph and say, this is what I'm doing. This is how I'm looking after myself. I find that people in your position will take care of a patient more seriously, because there's self advocating and they're like, this is what I want to do to be well. And then I say, What's your window for therapeutic dose. So some medications, it's a month, so it's two weeks.

I always put a buffer upper. I say, okay, I'm in the middle of a Med change doctor. I've got about a month. And then if it doesn't react according to the therapy dose of my body, maybe we could switch it up again. And sometimes there's no parts that really. So you can either get your medications and it'll be a nice solution within a couple of weeks. Or sometimes it takes years and no one wants to hear that. But there's thousands of medications out there. And if you don't have medications, I tell people in group, it's like me trying to run up a hill with broken legs.

I can use my willpower as much as I can. I can eat healthy as I won't want. But unless I get that power assist from medication, I am not going to be able to use my willpower to walk up that hill. And so, like I said, we're trying to redefine the illness as a brain based illness. So people know you need to have something to take the edge off and to give you the will power to fix yourself.

Yeah. And I totally agree with you that medication should not be sedating you so that you're just numb and flat all the time. Medication should enable you to have a quality of life and to live the life you're supposed to live. So if you're a creative person, it should enable you to be creative. If you're a passionate person, you should still have strong feelings. You should just be stable.

Yeah. Totally. And you know, the other funny part, I think let me ask me how I'm doing better this time around and how what things I've learned. I have gotten to deep therapy, and I don't know, it's not just mental illness. It's like I'm almost 50 man, and there's stuff that in the past five years, I've just really come to deal with my family and stuff. So all of those internal things and working through my own trauma and childhood, I found that the Bipolar just kind of amplified all those stories.

So the story that I'm telling myself is, like, more askew because of my illness. So at times I'm like, okay, Ray, I think it's just that cloud of depression that's seeping through all your stories. You're making stuff up again. No, it's just you need to deal with this part. So working with a good counselor and therapist for psychotherapy as well as medication has been the game changers. Well, I see someone every two weeks now, and before, you know, I'd be a leading Peer groups and burn myself into the ground, without talking about my own stuff.

Is that the case? We say that we just kind of want to help other people, and then we just don't look after ourselves sometimes, right?

Yeah. No. I think it's incredibly important for people who care for others, especially for others mental health, that we have our own resources that we can turn to on a regular basis for our own support. And even if we're feeling fine all the time, like, I speak to somebody once a month about generally speaking. And I feel fine all the time. But I still speak to somebody once a month. I've been doing it forever because I just want to have a person that I can run things by and get support and just do some reality testing and sometimes vent.

And, I just find it such an invaluable experience. And I'm never gonna stop until one of us drops dead. I'm not gonna stop. And, I don't do it because I'm in crisis, and I don't do it because I'm quote, unquote sick. I do it because it's part of my self care. As a psychotherapist. For many years, it's been just a wonderful thing. And even now, as mainly a consultant, it's still a wonderful thing to have somebody to talk to. And I think having that kind of resource, even if you're like, really okay.

Even if you're just really fine if your life has stress and especially if you're taking care of people's mental health, I think it's absolutely invaluable to have somebody that you can talk to about your own mental health, because even if you have no, "brain disorder". You still have stress, you still have crisis, you still have grief, you still have lost, you still have the crap of life. Why not have that support? And then that just gives you that extra edge above that other people might not have.

So I totally recommend it. As a therapy practitioner, it would be very hypocritical to me, not pursue it myself. Right.

Listen to this is great. No, I was going to say just to talking about the thing with peer support. We always talk about sometimes therapists and doctors they know about the Ferrari, and they've can fix the Ferrari, but they've never driven the Ferrari. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

It's like street smarts versus the book smarts. And I think that co-regulation that happens when you know someone that gets to you. And it doesn't just have to be mood disorders. It can be AA or eating disorders and all that stuff. It's just finding someone that has that capacity for empathy and curiosity with you that can help you get do stuff. I know, that's really cool. I'm so glad that you're safe and strong enough to keep recommending everybody just keep having someone in your corner to help you out.

Everybody should be in therapy. My personal feelings. In fact, the people who think they need it the least are probably the ones who should be in it the most. Right? Because they're the ones who are probably really avoiding some stuff. And therapy keeps you honest. It makes you look at stuff that you don't want to look at. And the stuff that you don't want to look at is generally the stuff that you need to look at all your shadowy stuff totally. And it can really set you free.

Because when you look at that, you become more authentic and more honest with yourself and others. And your relationships become more intimate. And it just better.

You know, it's funny. Just kind of with me doing kind of music counseling therapy stuff with kids all the time. Like I tell them that I'm an emotional, gentle differ kids. So I either wrap them up or wrap them down. And one of the things I learned at a song ran a workshop was that you write the songs for when you need them. And I have been using music to help myself get better this whole time. And I wrote this sad song a while ago, and I'm sad, so sad.

It's okay to feel this way. It's okay when you don't know what to say. And when it hurts like this, when it hurts like this, I can't resist telling someone, maybe my dad or mom or just a friend. So I don't have to pretend maybe just a friend because I've had a bad day, you know, and I'm like, wrote this on a last you during COVID. But I'm singing it to myself, not going yes. It's letting your emotions out. And if not, like, Renee Brown says its involuntary reaction.

And there's no piece that comes, especially because bipolar is such an emotional illness. There's got to be a way to kind of amp that stuff up and down when you need to.

So you brought up a really interesting point, which is how you're using creativity as part of your healing. Right. And I have always found that, you know, my three go to when I'm not feeling great is talking to my loved ones, or to my therapist. Talking about it. But the other two are creativity and exercise. Those two things are my really big go to after talking about my feelings. And I love using exercise. Well, I exercise every day, every day I move some way. And some days I move in three different ways.

Like I'll do yoga. I'll go for a walk and I'll see my personal trainer on the FaceTime now, right. But every day I exercise. And I love creativity. And for me, creativity is kind of like the panacea. So I was just wondering, like, for someone like you who has a brain based mental health disorder, how do you find creativity supports you or when you're in your darkest times, so you turn to your art?

Yeah. You know, it's kind of a double-edged sword in some ways because I find that when I'm high, the thing I've learned, my idea machine keeps going, right. So I have to kind of get some of the features of bipolar features that are negative out of the way in order for me to really focus on creativity as a pure healing medium, if that makes sense at all. So I will sing slow songs or I will write and do poetry. And, you know, it also like art.

Like, I find that if I can look at a piece of art and stuff like that piece of art of the Lake with a bunch of birds on it, that is how I feel, and I'm not able to express it with words. So I find it's just really powerful to look at stuff like that. But I will say, though, being a high flyer, most of my creativity happens when I'm a little bit high, so not I want to re-qualify that what I'm saying is that I can manage right now kind of a very, very low hypomanic phase where it's like people that would have bipolar to you where you're energetic, you're productive. You're focused, like a lot of lawyers and kind of Hollywood stars maybe Pup Daddy and stuff. There are people that are functioning on that level with creativity. But whenever I get to a place where I have more than two or three, more than three racing thoughts, and when I just start to get obsessed about something, and I know that my creativity has gone too far. And I have friends like you said, that will check in at me and say, hey, Ray, you've been talking about this one song for three days.

What's up? And it'll be like a mirror for me. What I'll say, Ray, you don't look well, what are you gonna do about it? And it's the whole thing. It stresses people out when they have to manage your illness. But as soon as someone can hold up a mirror and say, you know that you need to look after yourself. Then I get it. And I'm able to pull back. And then usually within half a day, I'm able to figure things out. Does that make sense at all?

Just with the creativity part, there's so many great features of it. But just making sure, like you said, use it as a place of healing.

And I think that's a really important point that you say that creativity can be kind of a double edged sword because you can really fall down the rabbit hole with it. Right? Like, if you're in that hypomanic state, you can overdo it. And then it can become this vicious circle where you just want to do more and more and more, and it serves to mania. It doesn't serve the healing. So that's a very important point. I think when you're dealing with bipolar illness, I think it's not everyone is aware of that.

So you'll love this story then. So my first illness. So I was, like, super sick. And I thought I was like writing the new book of the Bible for kids. And, I ended up writing a bunch of poems, and I submitted some when I was really sick. So I got out of the hospital, like, probably two weeks later, and I get in the mail an envelope from Ripple Effect Press, and it says we have just short listed your poem, Brothers and Arms. Thank you for submitting it.

And I totally don't even remember writing it. Oh, my, that crazy because there's, like, moments of genius that happened. Right. So I think that with any illness, I think, they can find the good parts about it. And just when I'm firing on some of these features, it's fun to know, but it's better if I was able to write it while I was lucid. You know what I mean? What I got short listed. That is so weird.

But just the other day, diagnosed another person with bipolar two disorder, and it was a person in their 40s. And I was joking with them. But it wasn't really a joke because it's the truth. I was saying, you know, I'm sort of the specialist of diagnosing people in their forties for bipolar two, because they have very mild cases. And so they never get diagnosed because people aren't asking the right questions, right? Because they see they're hypomanic states as positive. They're energetic, they're creative, they don't get tired, they're productive. They can work long hours, they can make more money. They're more sexual. So that's fun.

I don't get super crash.

Yeah, but they don't associate the crashes. They go, I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Oh, and now I'm depressed. I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Oh, now I'm depressed. They don't realize that what's going on is that they're bipolar, which means two pulls up and down. They don't realize that the up phase is an unwell phase. And so all their doctors have been telling them, oh, yeah. You have a severe depressive disorder, and they're getting treated with antidepressants, and they're not getting better.

Right.

So I asked the questions, and then they get a proper diagnosis, and then they get put on the correct medications, and suddenly they start to become more stable. But it's hard. You know, it's hard for people who have a mild version of the disorder to recognize that it is not okay to be up all night cooking and writing and cleaning and rain poetry. And it's not a positive thing, because, like you say, it's gonna lead to a crash ultimately.

Yeah. You know what? I'm just giving you, like, a random applause right now. How great that we need more people like you that actually will look beyond you. Someone being anxious and actually, oh, either anxiety leading to being high, you know what I mean? You know just being a workaholic and able to discern that because you're right. People don't realize that it's bipolar affective disorder. It's a spectrum. So sometimes it's like a cold or sometimes it's like pneumonia. And especially, like I said.

Sometimes it's COVID.

Sometimes it's like the movers and shakers, that just, people that don't want to take medication because I don't want to be flat. You know what I mean? So, like, no, I don't want to take that because I'll be flat. I won't be creative anymore. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. I have a great psychiatrist, and we've worked it out where I'm not flat. So you don't have to be scared about losing your creativity. But yes, a lot of people are or losing that edge, like you said, about being able to work.

And, you know, like to hypersexuality, like I was having sex with my ex-wife for a week straight, and she used to be like, stop it. And you feel like, Whoa, I'm having so much fun. And its that fun addiction that can just be so dangerous as, you know, and it just wrecks relationships as well as people. The three things that you deal with once you've come out of an episode and you want to get well is like, stress, anxiety and shame. The shame part, because with my first thing when I went well, I ended up like screaming at my friend in a restaurant saying that they were going to have this kid and whatever.

And she couldn't get pregnant. And I knew that somewhere in my heart. And so she's crying in the restaurant. And I'm just like, I kept going on about and that wouldn't stop, because talking over people is a feature when you're high and your bipolar. And then I got to the hospital. I ran into them two years later, and the husband is like, sorry Ray you're out. And I'm like, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to say that, I was sick. I'm really ashamed that happened. But there's just this whole stuff of relationships blowing up after you get sick.

And it's just like going into a Bender when you're drunk or when you're taking drugs. And for me recently because my girls are so scared. I'm with therapy now. And their the visit with me like, you know, a couple of times a month, but they don't live with me right now. And that has been incredibly hard being a great dad, you know, that kind of one night just kind of cost me that. And I understand that they're like teenagers and they're younger. But the whole thing of trying to make it safe again for them and realize, okay, yeah, I was really sick.

And, you know, I felt like an impostor for the past six months as Mr. Rays, because I got to the hospital and all these Christmas shows to do. And I'm thinking to myself, oh, my goodness, how can I sing, like, after be fun with other kids when my own two daughters started living with me right now. Luckily, my son, he loves it. So he's with me all the time. But there's a cost that happens when you crash. So that's what I used to tell them to get on medication, to see the psychotherapist like yourself until you just need the proper support, because it just too costly to be sick with depression or with this bipolar stuff.

But there's a lot of myths, right. There's a lot of myths about medication, right? Medication will make me numb, medication will make me feel flat. Medication will take away my creativity. Medication will make me lose touch with who I am. What can you say about that?

Again, I'm going to point the whole model of peer support, like with the hospital. We have a thing now. So, you know, and operated maybe across the world where you have, like, this recovery college. And one person that speaks is a doctor. And the other person that speaks and teaches is a peer support person. And so the doctor gives the peer support person a medication, whether they've got anxiety or bipolor stuff. And then we are the example that the medication works. So, I would say that if you can get around people that medication has worked for them, we're the story of a good doctor that said, you can do this without being numb, without believing some of these lies.

And again, I would say that you're going to get your ass kicked for the first couple of times because your body is adjusting to a new medication that's not been on before. And you know, when I had my second psychiatrist, I moved here from Vancouver, and I had this hot shot psychiatrist who will remain nameless. I came just out of University. And he was like, I'm not gonna read your chart. I'm just gonna give you some medication. So I had a bunch of Mr. Ratios booked, and he gives me double my dose for my circle anti anxiety.

It knocked me out for a day and a half. And then we just like, my ex wife and I went to the office and talked to whatever Dean of Psychiatry and said, this is unacceptable. This guy didn't even read my chart. He just gave me some drug without asking the right questions and being, you know, someone that would be the advocate for me. So all that to say, just make sure that your psychiatrist feels for you and that you have empathetic bond with each other and that you're able to see that there's good medication cases that can come out of it with the right prescription, the right people.

Yeah. They have to listen and they have to pay attention.

Yeah. And I get it because I think that, you know, it is scary when you wake up and you can't wake up, or you're sleeping for 9 hours because of a drug, you know, or you don't feel anything your heart for your wife, for kids or friends because you're just numb. But I'm here to say that, that too shall pass, and you're going to just have to figure out what that medical cocktail is for you that works.

Because you don't sound numb to me.

Thank. Oh, man, I gotta tell you, I do that thing now with Mr. Rays in the white line, and I've got this white line on my guitar, and I'm teaching kids that is your GLT. Find courage and be brave with Mr. Rays. And I bring up my moods all the time. And I'm like, yeah, try not to be numb or depressed, try to be a bit happier. But all that stuff, it's just good medication and get psychotherapy. Those are the game changers.

And those are the things that a lot of people are afraid of. People are afraid to talk about themselves. They're afraid to reveal themselves. They're afraid to admit that they are talking to somebody because there's still so much stigma. There's so much negativity thrown at people who seek out mental health. Health, which is so unfortunate because we all need it. We all need it. Living life is stressful. Even if you have nothing really wrong with you. Living life, it's really stressful.

I know. Yeah. You know, it's funny because, like, my whole thing is to break this stigma with kids. And with this generation, with bipolar disorder. And one of the best ways I describe this to kids is I told my own, it's like having glasses for my brain. My medication is my glasses. I'm going to have the right prescription. I can think better. I can live better. And then I used to tell Mike and my son that sometimes Daddy's emotions get so big, I need to push him back into my heart.

So my heart gets smaller because my body, my heart just kind of starts taking over my brain. I just started being very emotive. And I said that when you take medication, just like putting pillows around your heart, that helps you get slower and gets buffers in it. And without medication, without good self care routine and doctors, it's just not going to work. And it's been really good so far. A lot of some parents have come up and said, hey, that's great. You should hear that stuff because my kid has anxiety, and you probably get this all the time.

As soon as we start talking about this stuff, everything's brought out into the light. And then everybody just starts talking and just being open. So it's just so valuable that Ruthless Compassion is all about talking about mental health, and it worries that we can improve ourselves. Thank you.

No problem. Yeah. Ruthless compassion is all about facing the truth with kindness. That's the whole philosophy. It's like seeing the truth about ourselves, other people in the world. It's really facing the truth. But when you face the truth, so many people are afraid to face the truth because they immediately impose a judgment on themselves and others in the world. And if you can face the truth without all that judgment, that's the Ruthless Compassion Model. And that's why I say we can let go of the stigma. And we can just say, you know, this is helpful and we don't have to judge ourselves or each other for wanting to have more support.

Yes. You know what? That's one of my new Mr. Ray songs. Ruthless Compassion, Let's take some action. I can have you do some dabbing and some things in and like, oh, my gosh. I want to go to Toronto anyway. So anyway, you can get there for sure. We could be the therapist, dancers/musician and rock the world, man. Yeah. There's nothing more vulnerable for me than dancing because I'm just so awkward at it. So. Oh, man, real. This compassion takes action. That's no work.

No, it's it's really good to see the truth without all those imposed judgments, Just to see it and to say, okay, this is how it is, right? It's not somebody's fault. I am constantly telling people, like, several times a week. It's not your fault that you developed a mental health condition. It's just these things happen, just like it's not your fault if you developed asthma or if you develop the heart disease, you know, most of the time, it's genetic, right? So if your genes want to go in that direction, it's not your fault.

And life is stressful. And like you said, sometimes the stress of life can just knock you over the edge. And then you get physically ill or mentally ill, and people have to stop blaming themselves and shaming themselves and just start loving themselves and part of self love, the self care.

That's right. You know, I tell kids to train based all this is it's like Finding Nemo. So he has that one little fin that's, like, kind of broken and the other one that's good. Sometimes our perfect story of life can hit that little broken fin, that really can take a lot of damage than a regular fin. That's fine. You know what I mean? So you're, specially with COVID. Hey, everything's come to light for just a regular vanilla depression that everybody gets is all of a sudden, like, ten different flavors.

Everyone's really sad or anxious and stuff. And it's just funny how even with our small groups, I find in COVID with two other people that I can meet with, it just forces you to be even more open and vulnerable. So we've gotten really tight before the third stage happens with just the people that are near pockets.

Yeah, absolutely. Because everyone is going through this like crazy time and because there's so much isolation and separation and so many non in-person meetings that we want to make our interactions more meaningful.

Yeah. Unless you're in Alberta, because right now it is the weirdest place ever, because I can come in, take into a place with COVID Delta Variant, not tell the teachers, not tell the kids, not tell the government. And I can leave that preschool area with the better said kids. You know what I mean?

Like, yeah, I just heard that Alberta has double the rate of Ontario right now.

But, no, we're not tracing it. That's just the weirdest thing. So, yeah, it's crazy. So if you are opening the doors to Ontario, let me come by their some time and I can take some residents get out of crazy lander.

Oh, my God.

Goodness, goodness gracious.

So, Ray, what are you up to these days in terms of shows and stuff? Like, what's going on with you in terms of performing these days?

So right now, I'm actually the new content producer for a SODA Kids Channel. So I've been working with Vulcan for the past year. So now I'm going to get some really great things out of there. And I'm doing a Super Saturday Kids Club every Saturday, starting next week. And the really cool part is every second Saturday, we're going to talk about decolonization. And I have a friend who's part of the Black Foot Tribe. She's a fancy shall dancer, just like a great spiritual grandmother. And she's going to share about the residential school system and how to have empathy and how kids can learn from it.

And then I'm going to bring up some stuff about Indonesia and how we're under Dutch colony, and we were not able to play this instrument called their Angklung for 100 years. Because the Dutch thought that this instrument was to call to war, which it was. But it was just like a little bamboo thing and just how we should have multiculturalism and empathy and diversity as Canadians. So Super Saturday Kids Club will start off. It's absolutely free. It's a half an hour jam of meeting a bunch of of the best kids, entertain you, sharing stuff.

That sounds wonderful. And where can people find you if they're interested in looking into all about Ray Van Gobel?

Oh, I basically live on Instagram. So, you can find me on Instagram at @mrrayz, and it has all the links in the bio there.

So M-R-R-A-Y-Z.

Yes, on Instagram.

Terrific. And just before we leave, I always like to have my guest give a call to action to the listeners. So what would be your call to action today?

To find the courage to be brave and to share your bad day at the end of the day. Like, don't go to bed without touching it with someone saying whether it's a good day, but best if you had bad days. So you can get stuff out, maybe find some healing.

That's a nice one. Yeah. Not to go to bed. Some people say don't go to bed mad, but maybe don't go to bed sad without sharing it.

Yeah, absolutely. Or else is too much wine in that night. You know what I mean? Like, oh, man, I should all taught to talk to someone instead of going for that other bottle of wine.

Yeah, I think that's a really good alternative.

It's too less expensive to you. So that's a good thing.

But better for your liver.

And so good for your heart.

For your physical heart and your own emotional heart.

That's right.

Well, thank you so much, Ryan Van Gobel. It's been a pleasure again talking with you. And, you know, very good words of wisdom and really good clarification. And I think, when we have somebody who has, you know, weathered the storm themselves, you're much more credible authority on the topic than like you say, somebody who doesn't know how to drive the Ferrari.

I just love that we tried to throw the word Ferrari. It's about five to .I love your work that you're doing and I can't wait till next time.

Alright. Well, wonderful. We'll talk to you again then.

Okay. Be well. Bye.

That was the delightful Ray Van Gobel. And I'm Dr. Marcia Sirota. If you like this podcast, please review it wherever you listen. And you can sign up for my free Biweekly Wellness newsletter at MarciaSirotamd.com. Where you'll also learn about my new online courses and my YouTube series on coping with COVID.