103 - (Part 2) Abby Medcalf-Simple Tips For Creating Superior Relationships, Both Personally and Professionally.mp3 - powered by Happy Scribe

Ruthless Compassion is a podcast about people who've turned their emotional shit into fertilizer for success. It's about seeing our darkest moments and opportunities for growth and transformation. This is part of part two of my interview with Abby Medcalf. Abby Medcalf is a relationship Maven, psychologist, author, podcast host, and TEDx speaker who has helped thousands of people think differently so they can create connection, ease and joy in their relationships, especially the one with yourself. With her unique background in both business and counseling, she brings a fresh, effective perspective to life's struggles using humor and her direct, no nonsense style. With over 30 years of experience, Abby is a recognized authority and sought after speaker at organizations such as Google, Apple, AT&T, Kaiser, PG & E, American Airlines, and Chevron. She's been a featured expert on CBS and ABC News and has been a contributor for Huffington Post, Women's Health and Bustle. She is the author of the number one Amazon bestselling book, Be Happily Married Even If Your Partner Won't Do a Thing. And she's the host of the top rated Relationships Made Easy podcast. Her new book and program, Negative Thinking Sucks and Not In a Good Way will be out soon.

I think so much of life just comes in happiness and contentment comes down to boundaries. Really understanding that. I think the big mistake people have is that our boundaries should stay the same no matter what anyone else is doing. So if someone's really nice to me, I shouldn't collapse my boundary and not have it anymore. And if someone is really rude to me, I shouldn't throw up a wall and cut them off and be done. And that's what people tend to do. We get upset because other people aren't respecting our boundary. We get really upset when they do that and then we cut them off or I can never talk to you again or I'm unfollowing you or whatever, right? We get this really major reaction and the boundary should always be the same. And I'm thinking of this thing that happened when I learned this best with my teenage son. We had a curfew that we had agreed on and he called late one night, he was out with friends and he wanted to stay out longer. And the boundary is there for a reason, right? Curfew is a boundary, right? It's there for a reason.

But he's been really good with his boundaries lately and with his curfew and all that. So in the moment, biggest mistake right there. I said, okay, sure, you can stay on an extra hour. And of course, why do you call it eleven at night? It's because you're doing something bad and fail later. And so he ended up blowing the curfew and I got furious the next day because I didn't hold my boundary. And then I collapsed it and made it too thin and gave him the thing in the moment. And then he didn't hold the boundary either, because I wasn't holding it. Why should he? And then I got really upset, and I was going to that place where I was going to ground him for the rest of his life, which obviously is a little extreme. And that's what people do, though. All the time. We get so upset. We ourselves don't hold our standard, don't hold our boundary. And then we get upset that other people don't respect it. And then again, they act nice. So we go, oh, here, it's okay. And then they overstep it a little bit again, and we blow up and we go all the way to the other side.

So I tell folks all the time, you know, the secret to a happy life is what you're doing with your patient. Here's my boundary. I don't stand around for that kind of talk. I just don't stay in the room for that. You do it lovingly. We call that loving detachment. Right. You're not mad as the person. You're not telling them they're a jerk for it. You're just saying this isn't something I personally like to be around. It puts me in pain. So if it happens, I'm going to be walking away, and that's it. And no matter what else happens, what he does or doesn't do, that boundary doesn't change. So if he's been really, quote, unquote good for a while and treating this child right is treating their partner right for a while, but then does something really icky again, it's not. Oh, yeah. It was just the one time I'm going to let it go. It's like, oh, there it is, time to get up. Because as we know, if we let the boundary go in the future, it just starts to cascade back to old behavior.

Yeah. One of the things I have had to consistently repeat over the years is consistency, that you have to be consistent in applying all your tools and including your boundaries. And if you're inconsistent, you're giving a message that you should not be taken seriously. You are undermining your own credibility. So if you say something and then you flip flop, what you're telling the other person is, don't take me seriously, because I don't really mean what I'm saying. And so I always say, if you want someone to listen to you and take you seriously, you have to take yourself seriously, which means be consistent.

Yes. It's the key to life, isn't it? And I remind people, you don't have to be perfect, but you have to be consistent. It has to be in that trend all the time. And that's really about also checking in with how you feel more often. Because when our boundaries are being violated, that's when we get upset or when we're collapsing them in some way. If they're getting violated, it means we're kind of allowing it in some way. Right. Unless it's something really violent. And so we start to get upset. So I tell all the time. You can tell by your emotions how you're doing with your boundaries. If you feel resentful, hopeless, helpless, any of those things, it's because you're not holding a boundary that's pretty much other than obviously huge clinical depression. I'm not talking about severe mental health issues, but in general, that's what that is. And I had someone recently who was really angry at a friend who was visiting her mom and was asking my client to do some stuff with her kids while she was gone. And my client was in the middle of a move and was doing all this stuff and couldn't believe that this friend was asking her, like, she knew how crazy she was in the middle of a move and having all this stuff going on.

And she was furious with a friend. Just furious. And I said to her, this isn't about your friend. Your friend's taking care of herself. Look at her. She's like, hey, I'm here relaxing, and I'm doing this thing with my parents, and it's taking a lot out of me. I need a few extra days. She was actually taking a few extra days to go relax somewhere. That's why she wasn't coming right home. I said, and you just had to say no. That's all you had to say was, I can't do it. You have to find somebody else. But you didn't to expect other people to remember that we're in the middle of a move and to be nice and to do what we do. Because of course, my client was like, I would never do that. I'm always thinking of other people. I'm like, I'm sure you are, but you can't expect that from everyone else. That's not how it works. And so even people who do think of other people sometimes forget in a moment or don't notice something that is important to you. So again, it always comes back to you holding the boundary.

And so when you get really upset or you get in those places, it's generally because we haven't spoken up for ourselves. We haven't said no. And no is the complete sentence, of course, just a reminder to everyone. No justifications, no explanations, just no apologies. Yeah. Oh, God. Women are the worst with that. No apologizing for it. You just say it and then that's it. And then you hold it. And you know, our job is not to make other people comfortable. Our job is just to be truthful and respect ourselves. That's it. And to be as kind as possible. Don't expect you to yell no at somebody, but other people are going to have their reaction. They're going to be uncomfortable, they're going to be upset, they're going to be whatever they are or they're going to be fine. That again, used to hold your boundary. We don't change our boundaries depending on what other people do or what other people are reacting with or what they might say. Which always reminds me to remind people that you can't read mine and no one can read yours. I know we think we can. I know what he's going to say, so I'm not going to say it.

He should know what I want for my birthday. He knew what he meant when he said that. All these things. It's like, no, I have a little acronym I always use where I talk about verb. Don't act like a victim, don't be entitled, don't read minds, and don't expect anyone to read yours. And don't blame because when you're in any of those things, you're in a very unhealthy place. Right. If the other person is doing it, or if you are, whenever you're involved in any of those four actions, there's not going to be any communication happening. There's just people getting set up in their defensiveness. And so much like talking to a drunk person who drunk people sometimes can follow the conversation. You think they're listening, but they really don't remember anything. It's kind of the same thing when someone is triggered and in one of those things that you're not really speaking to them, you're not really having the conversation. So you want to I just tell folks, try to stop it as soon as you can. Just walk away. Come back another day to have that conversation.

It's funny when you were talking about this story with this person who said yes, when they really wanted to say no, I think about how people are so frightened to have a confrontation because the other person might not like me. They might get angry at me, they might reject me. So instead they suck down their true feelings. They go along with something, then they get mad, then they might leak their anger. And so the result is that the other person gets angry at them, maybe leaves them. They create exactly what they're afraid of. And even if the other person doesn't get angry and doesn't become rejecting, they're so miserable in their own resentment that it's just not worth it. So I always am telling people to the worst thing that could possibly happen is if you set a boundary, the other person will show you how completely unreasonable they are and have a big fuss. But then that's information for you. Why would you want to stay in a relationship if you say, Sorry, I can't do that, the other person has an explosion and says, Well, I'm not going to be your friend anymore. Who wants to be friends with that person if they're like that.

So I say the worst thing that will happen is you're actually going to find out if this person is reasonable or unreasonable. And if they're reasonable, who needs them?

Oh, I love it. That's great. Yeah. It's that fear, though, I think of being, like you said, abandoned or rejected. Right. It's such a base fear for people. And I also tell folks, again, in any relationship, if you're coming from a fear based emotion. Worry, anxiety, hopelessness, helplessness, concern. Anytime we're coming from there, we're not having a real relationship. Again, you can't base any kind of healthy relationship on fear. So if I'm afraid to say something because you'll leave me or because you won't be my friend or because you'll fire me or whatever it is, then you're just living in that fearful state. You're not making good decisions. You're not making healthy ones. Right. Your amygdala is lit up in your brain. It's bad stuff coming down the pike. And when you want to really be in your more rational problem solving brain, you gotta turn that other part off. So again, check in with your feelings. Am I feeling anxious about this? Am I feeling worried? Is that even my language that happens a lot? Well, I'm worried that but what if I'm afraid that I'm concerned about it's really letting us know that this person is really coming from fear all the time and you've got to stop and you got to check in and you have to shift that to that compassion, kindness, thoughtfulness, calmness.

Right? That different energy. That's where the communication is. We don't communicate with thoughts. We communicate really with feelings. That's how we connect. I should say we connect with feelings, not thoughts. And again, those 11 million bits, people are picking up on those feelings anyway. So really to connect with another human, it's really in those feelings we're having. So even if you can be really honest with someone and just say, yeah, I'm really afraid to say this. I'm afraid of your reaction, but I need to say it, whatever it is or set up the conversation with is this a good time to talk? There's something I really want to say to you. I was hoping that you could just listen for a bit. This is really hard for me to say, so I need you to be here with me. And what I always like to do is have people state their intention, which is very disarming for other people. If you say, My intention is that we both walk away from this conversation feeling like it was really beneficial for both of us, that we walk away connected, that we have this conversation in a way where we're both really listening to each other.

That's my intention right now. And it really disarms people. It brings them very here and now very in the moment, and you will find that you can then give the feedback of, I didn't like that, or I don't want to do that in a much different place because you have to connect to correct. So if you're not connected and you just try to correct, I don't like when you do this. I don't want you to do that anymore. I need more of this. But there's no connection. It's just not going to happen. And the problem is that when people are getting along, that's sort of the last time they want to bring something up, right? Thinking, I don't want to rock the boat. I don't want to say this now, but that's exactly when you want to say the thing, because you have a good connection. So this is the perfect time to bring something up. But again, I tell folks it's a lot like communication on this level is a lot like if you've ever painted a room. Painting seems so much fun when you talk about it. Painting. Let's go paint a room.

But it sucks because 90% of painting is preparing the room. Taping off the corners and covering the furniture and making sure the ground is covered and doing the windows right, edging the windows. It's so much work. But then the painting goes really easy. The painting is super quick when you do the work first and in a conversation. It's the same when we're going to, quote, unquote, confront someone or we have to talk about something that's difficult if you prepare. Well, is this a good time to talk or can we talk later? When I come home from work, I have some stuff I really want to go over with you. It's nothing to be alarmed about, but I really want your full attention and then to start that conversation with what our intentions are. I love you so much. This is really hard for me. This is something I need to talk about. I do it with my own partner. I'm going to say something. I just need you to listen. It helps him know what to do, what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for suggestions. I'm not looking for advice. And I'm not looking for you to be defensive.

I'm just looking for you to listen and to ask me some questions. Right. And to ask questions to elicit more. I tell people a lot. You want to listen like you're wrong. So really go in with that's the question. Well, can you tell me more about how you're feeling? Can you tell me more about what I did that is creating what's going on right now as we really ask for more as opposed to, well, I didn't do that because of this or you did this. That's why I did this, any of that stuff. But to really listen in that way, it's the gold. It's really what happens. But prepare, prepare to paint your room.

When you said that, I was thinking about how when we are fearful, it's because we don't trust ourselves. So part of that preparing feels like building that self confidence that I'm going to be okay no matter what happens. If this person is unreasonable, I'm going to be okay. If they are cool with it, I'm going to be okay. If we have a disagreement or a misunderstanding, I'm going to be okay until we sort it out one way or the other, just believing that they are going to be okay. And I think that often what happens is we get into this scared little child mode and we forget that we're competent adults who can take care of ourselves. And then it's just like, oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Right. So if we remind ourselves that I got this, I'm going to be okay, then we don't have to approach our relationships from this place of fear. We can approach it from a place of confidence, not overconfidence, but I'm going to be okay. No matter what happens. I can take care of myself. I will recover from disappointment, hurt, loss, and I can problem solve, and I can make it better.

If it's not good, I can figure it out. Right. Like having all that self trust, I think, can really change that perspective and enable a person to come from a place of compassion versus anxiety.

I love that. I talk just a lot about being the dominant vibration in the room. And I'm sure you've had patients say this, well, I was in a good mood, and then my partner came home in a bad mood, and then I was in a bad mood, right. Yeah.

They absorbed it.

I always say, make it the opposite. Why is that the way it has to go? There's nothing saying it has to go that way. So if you before your conversation can get yourself in a place of what you're saying, like, really build on that. Like, I'm okay and I'm a good person, and I'm asking for something. I'm really proud of myself. I'm asking for this thing. And you know what? It's going to go great, because it is, because I'm going to be fine. And that means it's going to go great. I'm going to be such a good listener in this. I'm going to be really open. I'm going to be appreciative. We're going to get there together, and that's what's going to happen. And like a force of nature, you know what I mean? Like a force of will. And you bring that energy in again. That 11 million bits people pick up on it. And if you've ever been to, like a concert or a football game or a soccer match or whatever, you know, it's true that you get swept up in the energy around you. That's what happens. And you can be swept up in this wonderful energy.

And so when you come in with that sort of confidence and that clarity again, our partners, our coworkers, whoever it is, really picks up on it. And I've done this in work settings. I've done this in meetings where I have walked in and said, you know, I was kind of dreading this meeting because I know we have all the stuff to go over, and I know there's a lot of different opinions. And I'm in here saying right now that it's my intention that we all walk away feeling mutually satisfied that we are going to get there together. And I'm not going to relent until it happens. And I'm telling you, people come on board, they're right there because they want it to. No one wants to walk away miserable. That's not again. Barring any severe mental health issues, people don't want to walk away miserable. They want to walk away happy. They want to walk away feeling that way. And they want to be part of it because most people have a self concept that says that they're cooperative and kind and funny and whatever. So when you give them an opportunity to show up that way, they love it.

And then I go around and say, how are you feeling? Is anybody else feeling that way? I was in the room with eight guys, and they all were like, yes, well, there you go. So let's not bring that energy in the room. Let's bring something else in the room. We're all smart people. I know we can get there. Let's do that. And then I went around just asking other people's intention, and it really went incredibly well. It didn't go perfectly. We didn't come out with the answer I wanted, actually, but we did come out all feeling more like a team. That's really the goal. So think of these things. Think of yourself like you're saying, I'm going to be okay, but really even take it a step up. Even lean into it more like, not well, I'm going to be okay. I want to get through it. You'd be like, hey, I am already. Okay. So yes, I'm bringing my okay self to this thing. And you know what? I'm a force of nature in other places. Lots of people have success in other areas that we can bring in. When I set myself to a task at work, I do great.

I got through school and I had to work my way through school. Whatever it is, whatever resource they have, whatever strength they have, it's like, yes, that's that self efficacy. And I can bring it here. I don't want people to steal. If you're stealing yourself for the conversation and you're really terrified and you're just like, okay, it's going to be fine. I'm going to be all right. It doesn't translate well. So I love what you're saying. And I feel like it's just like, yeah, let's amp it up even more and bring that to bear.

Well, gosh, we've had such an interesting conversation. I was just wondering, what are your current projects? What are you working on these days?

I'm working on so many fun things. So I'm redoing the whole website, which is really fun. And we're going to make it more of an interactive experience. And we are coming out with this really fun merchandise, believe it or not, soon. And I had this idea for having a T shirt that said, Under the Influence of Love. Yeah. So it's sort of things like that, a little tongue in cheek. And I'm hopefully going to finish doing a book called Negative thinking sucks and not in a good way. It's all about program for getting out of negative thinking. And I have like deck of cards I'm doing is a little mini course for people to kind of pull a card every day in their relationship to move through that. So, yeah, I'm really excited. And my podcast Relationships Made Easy. We're in our fourth season and yeah, really exciting. We're in 132 countries now. It's been blowing up everywhere. And so it's all about actionable tools to really make your relationships better and research based. I'm a research junkie. So working on that, it's been really fun lately. Just really exciting, taking questions from people who are listening.

And I have a little Ask Dr. Abby segment and sort of spinning those back around with some hopefully good thoughts for everybody on how to deal with certain situations and all that's on my website, by the way, the Abbymedcalf.com, you can get everything there. So there's quite a bit there. I'm a nut with putting out information.

Cool. One quick question. How do you take care of yourself? How do you set your boundaries and give yourself that time just for your own personal needs?

Yeah, I've become because I have teenagers home and I've got all the things. And I have been a devotee of waking up early. And I used to always be a night person. I tended bar for years. I mean, I was always a night person. And I really have shifted that because that time in the morning to have plenty of time. And I wake up and I do my workout and I meditate every single morning. And I have my little it's not an hour of power, but I have like a half hour of power. And I spend time, really important time in that meditation. I do about 15 minutes of meditation. That's enough. And then I do some writing or whatever, reading, whatever else is right there. The day is all about momentum. And you wake up with the most momentum, as you know, and the most willpower you're going to have for the day. And I want that momentum to be positive. I want to come right out of the gate with that really positive momentum. So when I wake up, I turn off my alarm. My first thought is not, oh, I didn't get enough sleep, because that is not going to make you have a good day.

If your day didn't even start and you already don't have enough, you're in trouble. So right away I'm thinking of turning my brain towards something I appreciate in that moment. Even if it's my sheets or my pillow or how warm the toasty the room is. I turn my attention to something. I really work on that momentum all day long and keeping it up. I always say if you have a car on top of a hill and it starts to roll, you don't want to stop it at the bottom. You don't want to run to the bottom. You want to stop it at the top so that there's not so much momentum building. And I really guard that positive momentum all day. I pay a lot of attention to it, and that's really at the key to my self care.

I bet you say a lot of no as well.

I do. I say a lot of yes, but I say a lot of no.

That's my Ruthless Compassion Concept.

Right.

You can love it. You can be loving and compassionate, but you need to have your NO and your boundaries and that clarity that you are entitled to. The boundaries.

Yes, I'm very clear about that all the time. I really am. And I've come by it out of necessity, and it's served me so well. I'm so much happier day to day in my life. I feel calm, I feel replete, and those are not things I had before I started really keeping my boundaries being really clear.

They're gold, like you say.

Yes, they're gold. That's really wonderful.

So just before we go, how about a call to action for the listener, something that you can suggest that they contemplate or that they try moving forward?

Yeah, I mean, I think I gave quite a few of those. In some ways. The biggie I would love for you to try just for one day is to not make statements to your partner or your kids and to instead just ask questions. Now, obviously, you can say it's time for dinner. That's a statement. But anything else, anything they ask. Mom, can I go out with my friends and it's an hour before dinner, right. Instead of saying no, you're supposed to be home at six. You just might say, well, do you think you can make it home in time? Dinner is at six because that's the boundary. Dinner is at six. Will you be home in time just to ask the question? To have other people thinking not just coming out with that or if your partner comes home in a bad mood because of Barb at work to say, hey, tell me more about that. Can you tell me what you've tried with Barb that's worked? What hasn't worked? Anything to be asking questions in a listening conversation and really being mindful of not giving suggestions or advice.

That sounds like a nice call to action for people to give it a shot. Well, listen, Abby Medcalf, it's been a pleasure chatting with you today. I really enjoyed this very wide ranging but very focused at the same time conversation.

Yeah, me too. Thank you so much for having me.

That was part two of my interview with the delightful Dr. Abby Medcalf. And I'm Dr. Marcia Sirota. If you like this podcast, please review it wherever you listen. And you can sign for my free biweekly wellness newsletter at marciasirotamd.com, where you'll also learn about my online courses and my YouTube video series.